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How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
#1126719
12/03/11 02:20 PM
12/03/11 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,449
Woodbridge,CA
NAS Backyard
OP
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,449
Woodbridge,CA
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I have a .040 over stock (pistons) 440 with a mild cam, 727 /Gear Vendors/3:23 that I regularly pound on. My trans doesn't like to shift until around 6000 RPM's at WOT and I think it's a little late. I've adjusted the kick down and it shifts great under regular driving conditions, but wants to whined a little too tight for my comfort zone. The engine is balanced and was built be a reputable builder. Should I be worried?
Last edited by NAS Backyard; 12/03/11 02:23 PM.
1970 Challenger Ragtop 426 4 speed
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1968 Pontiac Firebird 428 4 speed
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: NAS Backyard]
#1126721
12/03/11 03:26 PM
12/03/11 03:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
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master
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Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
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That's kind of a vague question.
The rpm range is dictated by the cam/intake/carb/heads/exhaust, the mass of the reciprocating lower end.... and so on.......
Reliability???? What max rpm with the heavy slugs a factory 440 used???? That's the real question. Probably not much over 6k.
You didn't mention the cam other than "mild". The package as a whole is probably overrunning the cams design. It's probably doing a "nose-over" deal where it's shifting past its peak.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: NAS Backyard]
#1126725
12/03/11 04:17 PM
12/03/11 04:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,479
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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I Live Here
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Canada
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Depends on the TACH too.  I drove the same 440 powered car for 9 years, raced it regularly for 9 years, knew it like the back of my hand. Shifted consistently exactly the same thousands of times. I never look at my tach while racing, and since my buddies were getting annoyed I bought an Autometer Sport Comp recall tach. It would consistently pull 6400 rpm on the tach every time. Once every 50 runs or so.... it would read 7100 rpm. Then it would go back to 6400 rpms again and again. It was weird. We tossed the engine in my buddy's car years later. It had a Sun Super Tach II, which must be a much more powerful tach.  He wound the engine over 8000 rpm!!!!!!!  I always wondered how his previous engine, which seemed mundane, was pulling 6500+ rpm! I had a tic-toc-tac that would allow me to CRUISE at 5500 rpm with a similar engine, no idea what was wrong with that one!!!! I almost wonder if some tachs are set for 6 bangers, the rpm I have seen.  Good stout 440s I have had were just over 6000rpm when I shifted, if the tachs were fairly accurate.
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1126727
12/03/11 04:44 PM
12/03/11 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
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usa
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Quote:
Quote:
The engine is balanced and was built be a reputable builder. Should I be worried?
No & & if the preferred shift point is lower than 6K I'd change the governor weights to ch that then adj the kickdown seperately to where you want it to be & not use it to move the WOT shift points
probably good advice
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1126729
12/03/11 05:21 PM
12/03/11 05:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
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I Live Here
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Overpriced Housing Central
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Run it up, note tach level when it blows up, back off 100-200 RPM...  How much it will wind and where it covers ground best are quite different. If the cam isn't crazy I bet it would like something less than 5500.
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1126730
12/03/11 05:30 PM
12/03/11 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
BeEtLeJuIcE !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
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Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
with a "warmer" cam thrown in,
WARMER ? ... so what oven-temp is that ?
And THIS from a  who is  something-funny and  on his car all-the-time ...
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: MoparforLife]
#1126732
12/03/11 06:20 PM
12/03/11 06:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,825
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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Too Many Posts
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Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
You are running way out of the peak power band.
Thats somewhat of an unknown--all he says is "Mild Cam", Maybe his mild isn;t what someone else would say is mild. 
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#1126733
12/03/11 06:28 PM
12/03/11 06:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
chatham, Ilinois
fox
super street
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super street
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
chatham, Ilinois
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Quote:
Quote:
with a "warmer" cam thrown in,
WARMER ? ... so what oven-temp is that ?
And THIS from a who is something-funny and on his car all-the-time ...
For street use I ussually prefer 280 to 290 degrees advertised!!!
Is that warm enough??!!LOL!
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: NAS Backyard]
#1126735
12/03/11 07:07 PM
12/03/11 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,020
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I have a .040 over stock (pistons) 440 with a mild cam, 727 /Gear Vendors/3:23 that I regularly pound on. My trans doesn't like to shift until around 6000 RPM's at WOT and I think it's a little late. I've adjusted the kick down and it shifts great under regular driving conditions, but wants to whined a little too tight for my comfort zone. The engine is balanced and was built be a reputable builder. Should I be worried?
Adjusting the Throttle valve(kickdown)Linkage doesn't do anything to the WOT shift point .'
Did you change the gov. weights to get that hi A WOT ? Stock they don't shift nearly that high , usually about 4800 or so ...
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: DennisH ]
#1126738
12/03/11 10:17 PM
12/03/11 10:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
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I Live Here
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Western Colorado High Desert
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Your build is probably peaking at about 5500 tops. Any RPM's over that is a waste.
I don't like taking a stock low end over 6000
The factory race manuals from the 70's that I wish I could find says 6500 max on a big block.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1126741
12/04/11 05:14 PM
12/04/11 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
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Too Many Posts
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Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Sure you can twist it to 6000 but it's not doing any good with those stock heads and mild cam. It will be faster if you shift it at 5000-5500, I would fix the trans governor issue.
Sheldon
Exactly. Plus the engine will live longer.
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1126747
12/05/11 11:53 AM
12/05/11 11:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,020
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Quote:
adjust your kick-down a.k.a. throttle pressure a little more. 6k is fine for a 440 but depending on the build you might be giving up some performance
WOT is a governor function not a kickdown linkage function.
Tim, what tac are you going by and have you confirmed it is reading correct?
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1126748
12/05/11 01:20 PM
12/05/11 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162
CT
GTX MATT
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I know a guy that bought a 67 GTX brand new. He put in a 320 degree Isky cam (the one Sox and Martin used in their '68 440 GTX) with fenderwall headers and 4.56s. He used to dump the clutch a 7200 and shift at 7200  I'm sure the car would have ETed better if he shifted it around 6000 but the point is he did that for 2 years on a stock short block. I think that's a testament to the strength of a Chrysler big block. I wouldn't recommend it though!
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: MoparforLife]
#1126749
12/05/11 02:15 PM
12/05/11 02:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
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I Live Here
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Sure you can twist it to 6000 but it's not doing any good with those stock heads and mild cam. It will be faster if you shift it at 5000-5500, I would fix the trans governor issue.
Sheldon
Exactly. Plus the engine will live longer.
 x3
depending on the cam, it's likely all done at 5500....but even if the cam is a higher rpm unit, the heads are done by then anyways. head flow, small cam, hydraulic lifters....it all adds up to the same thing.
On a related note, HR or one of the other mags did a test awhile ago on all the big block motors; they built them all using edelbrock heads, the same compression and cam specs, carb ets. The 440 came in 3rd IIRC on the hp (the Buick used more radical heads because Eddy didn't make any for it) and 1st in torque.....quite an accomplishment for a 440 cu in motor being compared to the Buick, Olds and Pontiac 455's.....I'm sure more than one Buick guy woofed up his cornflakes over that! .
The 440 is a low end motor with a healthy mid range punch.......it isn't suited to high rpm power production.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: DPelletier]
#1126750
12/06/11 06:50 AM
12/06/11 06:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,376
NORTHERN CA
HUSTLESTUFF
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,376
NORTHERN CA
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I have a stock crank and rods,(shot peened) 260/268@.050 cam I shift at 7000 every time I drive it. Mike
"Were in it to win it. Anything less will end up being..... A whole lot of fun doing!!" UNLAWFL
RIP UN
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Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?
[Re: HUSTLESTUFF]
#1126752
12/06/11 08:43 PM
12/06/11 08:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,532
crisfield, maryland 21817
82ramIndy493
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,532
crisfield, maryland 21817
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All I know is that I have turned a balanced STOCK bottom end with STOCK heads with a MP 284/484 cam 6500 on NOS, drove it 80 miles round trip on 4.56 gears to the track for 8 years before putting in a 493 stroker. Motor ran great when pulled and is ready to run still in another car if needed. A lot depends on the builder, the matching of parts and proper maintenance.
Last edited by 82ramIndy493; 12/07/11 09:59 AM.
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But it comes at a price, a motor is only as good as the builder, so beware. Parts meant for strong performance in the low and midrange portions of the tach do not produce power in the far RIGHT side of the dial! And the 
