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new 440 motor wont start? #1115564
11/17/11 04:04 PM
11/17/11 04:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,349
warfordsburg, PA
dirt Offline OP
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I am trying to start a fresh 440 6pack and i cant get it to even try to fire.
i put the timing on tdc on the compression stroke at the no 1 cylinder, then set the distributor to point to the number 1 ignition wire, then cranked the motor to get fuel to the carbs and tried to start it. it just cranked. then i pulled one of the plug wires of and checked for spark and it had spark. i tried again to start it and it never even tried to start.i moved the distributor advanced and then retarded a litle with no luck, i also tried putting a small amount of gas down the center carb with no luck.

i am out of ideas.

any thing i may be missing?

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: dirt] #1115565
11/17/11 04:11 PM
11/17/11 04:11 PM
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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did you filp the distrib and give it a try? I guess get your volt meter out and start checking all your connections. If you are at TDC and the rotor is at 1 it should at least make a "bang" or 2. Check the coil side of the ballast, it should have at least 9v. Check your coil, check your pick-up gap. I had a brand new MP distrib and the gap was about 3x what it should have been. Did you ground the #1 wire to the head and check for spark or just look at the plug?


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Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1115566
11/17/11 04:22 PM
11/17/11 04:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,349
warfordsburg, PA
dirt Offline OP
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i pulled the number one wire off the plug and put another plug in it and layed it aginst the motor to ground, i cranked the motor and seen spark at the plug.
may be the spark was too weak?

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1115567
11/17/11 04:41 PM
11/17/11 04:41 PM
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Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:

did you filp the distrib and give it a try?




this happened to me, thought everything was correct but I was one cylinder (or more) off....make sure the spark is happening at TDC on #1 compression.....and check distributor rotation <---ME duh

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: dirt] #1115568
11/17/11 05:06 PM
11/17/11 05:06 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Take out #1 plug (dr front) & bump starter relay till you feel compression building on your thumb then w a 1&1/4" socket/short extension/breaker bar continue to turn it CW by hand till the marks are at 10BTDC. Turn dist housing till the magnet is dead even with the nearest tooth that puts the rotor under or very near under the cap terminal with #1 plug wire on it. Check that the wires are routed correctly CCW from that point (1)-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. With hundreds of dollars in a new build after all that cranking I would definitely spend the minor amt of time /expense to pull the intake & regoop the lobes/lifter bottoms. Removing and replacing the rocker arm assy's will not change the valve lash (solids). Read "breakin secrets" at www.mototuneusa.com (5 minute read). High zinc oil/no thermostat/fan in front of rad/several helpers to check for leaks/add trans fluid/time dist when it fires (36 w vac adv plugged & hit 36 then plug hose in)/charged battery. Any probs cut it clean/immediately then fix the prob & restart. Ahead of time I would plug in a spare dist & twirl it by hand to confirm you have spark. 4 or 5 squirts of the AP into carb/ choke activated if needed depending on ambient temp. #1 want it to start ASAP as soon as you start cranking


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Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: RapidRobert] #1115569
11/17/11 05:19 PM
11/17/11 05:19 PM
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Florida STAYcation
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SQUIRT some starting-fluid ...

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: dOrk !] #1115570
11/17/11 05:36 PM
11/17/11 05:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,349
warfordsburg, PA
dirt Offline OP
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i pulled the #1 plug and made sure it was actually at TDC and it was. i pulle the valve cover and watched the rockers. on the compression stroke they were both closed.
it dosent even try to start. i think it must have done something at least once because when i pulled the plug it was a little black, so there must have been some fire there for a second.

could it be that the spark is too weak?
what should the voltage be at the coil? i did convert to electronic ignition.
is there a way to test the ignition box , coil, resistor?

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: dirt] #1115571
11/17/11 05:55 PM
11/17/11 05:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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I think you need at least 9v at the coil. Did you pull the coil wire and turn it over? That thing should arch like heck.

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1115572
11/17/11 06:08 PM
11/17/11 06:08 PM
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warfordsburg, PA
dirt Offline OP
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with the key on i have 6V at the coil, if i unplug the ecu it has 12v at the coil with the key on. is that normal?

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: dirt] #1115573
11/17/11 07:16 PM
11/17/11 07:16 PM
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NE MISSOURI
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Also make sure you open the carb up. I just put a six pack setup on my ride and it took a little tweakin before it would start easy.

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: dirt] #1115574
11/17/11 07:24 PM
11/17/11 07:24 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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seperate the 2 wire pull apart connector for the dist pickup and key on, Morse Code tap the male end of the eng half of the harness to ground & see if the center coil secondary wire (dist end) held 1/4" from a ground sparks & if so take off the yellow "sol" wire from the starter relay to disable the starter and have a helper hold the ign key to start & you repeat the test. If getting fire on both tests then all is good in the 'hood in ign1 (run) and ign2 (crank) except this bypassed & did not test the dist pickup so if good on the 2 Morse Code tests but no fire when cranking with the ign key, if you have a spare dizzy plug it in & twirl the shaft end by hand same deal key on/sec wire 1/4" from ground & if it now sparks in both ign1 and ign2 then the dist in the eng has a pickup prob (gap .008" w brass feeler gauge). If on the very 1st test it only fires in ign1 or in ign2 then the dist/pickup is very likely good (do quick check the gap tho) and there's a prob in the ballast or the wiring and if it did not fire at all in the 1st test there's a prob in one of the components (ECU/ECU ground/coil/ballast/ign key/dist)or one of their supporting circuits' wiring.

Last edited by RapidRobert; 11/17/11 07:50 PM.
Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: dirt] #1115575
11/17/11 09:04 PM
11/17/11 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Quote:

with the key on i have 6V at the coil, if i unplug the ecu it has 12v at the coil with the key on. is that normal?




swap the ballast/ 6v isn't enough. what's the reading on the coil side of the ballast?

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1115576
11/17/11 09:09 PM
11/17/11 09:09 PM

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You might also double check that the rotor is pointing to the number one wire at TDC.

I couldn't figure mine out about a month ago either as I had good spark, fuel and no fire.

The intermediate shaft was one lousy tooth off and it wouldn't even kick after cranking multiple times. I figured it would've at least popped off a cylinder once in a while!

Re: new 440 motor wont start? #1115577
11/17/11 09:24 PM
11/17/11 09:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Do what robert said and turn the crank back a bit and reset the distributor at 10* BTDC. This probably isn't your problem, but when you do get it to fire, it will fire a lot easier. Also, you made sure the ECU is getting power in the crank AND run position?

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1115578
11/17/11 09:47 PM
11/17/11 09:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
challengermike Offline
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I will take a guess to say your lifters arnt pumped up yet.I had that problem 1 time and it took me along time to get it to start,and after it fired it took along time for it to smooth out and run correctly.

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: challengermike] #1115579
11/17/11 11:12 PM
11/17/11 11:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 135
Indiana
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Osyman Offline
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Mine had a tough time starting at first when i put a "little" gas down the carb, then i dumped fuel down the carb and it fired up. Sounds like its not getting gas. Is your carb spraying gas when you pull the throttle?

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: dirt] #1115580
11/17/11 11:12 PM
11/17/11 11:12 PM
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New York
R/T1968R/T Offline
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My friend had the same problem. The knucklehead wired the cap clockwise. he had spark too! Double check it ...Counterclockwise!!

Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: R/T1968R/T] #1115581
11/18/11 05:25 AM
11/18/11 05:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,177
People's Republic of Kali
70runner Offline
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I recently fired up a rebuilt 440-6 on a test stand. Make sure the battery-starter connection is solid with a good ground. I had an issue with that. As others said, if you've done a lot of cranking, pull the intake and lube the cam. Check the intake runners, see if there is gas residue. May want to pull the timing chain cover and recheck cam/crank alignment. Be extra careful with the valley pan install. I had an intake leak that played havoc with startup and tuning. Re-verify CCW firing order.

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Last edited by 70runner; 11/18/11 05:26 AM.
Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: 70runner] #1115582
11/18/11 08:26 AM
11/18/11 08:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,071
Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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Niles , Ohio
Ha dthat happen to me.Seems I had a bad set of new plugs.Only 3 were firing.I pulled a used set from another 440 I had and it fired up.That and check compression on at least a few cylinders.That way you know what it has .Rocky


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Re: new 440 motor wont start? [Re: therocks] #1115583
11/18/11 10:05 AM
11/18/11 10:05 AM
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Newfoundland
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mopar_man Offline
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How long has the engine been sitting since rebuild? . If a fair amount of time has passed like a month or two I would mix some motor oil and gas together 50/50 and dump sum down each carb just to be sure . not too much , don't want to flood it .

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