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WIX, Fram, NAPA, etc... All of them utilize paper filter media. The manufacturing of paper filter media is not exact. As much as 40% of the filtering area of paper oil filters filter nothing at all, as in the filter is 40% blocked right out of the box.

Plus, how does paper respond to moisture? Right, it absorbs it. What does paper filter media do when it absorbs moisture from engine condensation and then it gets really cold outside. Yep! It freezes. Now your paper filter that was 40% blocked when new is now frozen and is really blocked. Now you have a completely worthless oil filter that's in bypass mode at cold engine start-up until it thaws out.

Do yourself a favor, do your engine a favor and throw out the paper oil filter. Then look for a micro-glass or better yet, a nano-glass oil filter. Previously only available in commercial and industrial applications, glass filter media technology has made it's way to the car and light truck market.

Seriously, research it.

Start here if you like: http://www.youtube.com/user/ckermit8

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Well here we go again ,it's either oil filters or oil,,
This question regenerates itself over and over!
Ok , lets roll with it ,
How much oil does a oil filter actually filter?
Answer not much at all! considering the amount of flow passing thru it.
In HP motors, will a HP filter filter more or less oil?
Answer, yes and no, why is that? because a HP filter allows for more oil to go thru it with out actually filtering the oil at all.
The more filtering medium used the actual less filter gets done!
So depending on the application , don't run a cheap standard filter on blown alcohol motor, or in 'disel' application don't run you cars filter on it.
Change you're oil at regular intervals use the proper weight of oil for the application
Now everyone can argue over it say what ever they wish , those are the facts!
By the way, I don't care what filter you run , just so long as it is used in the application that reguired for it!

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"As example, a 3 micron beta 200 microglass element has less restriction than a 30 micron paper element. Filter paper manufacture is not an exact science. In many paper elements, as much as 40% of the filter may not pass oil at all, thus reducing contaminant holding capacity and increasing flow resistance. Conversely, a "manufactured" microglass element can flow through 100% of its area which results in considerably increased contaminant capacity along with lower DP/resistance compared with a paper filter medium."George Morrison, STLE CLS

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In other words, WAY better filtering, and little or no pressure drop accross the filtering surface. It's not too good to be true, it's where modern technology takes us.

BTW, Those letters at the end of Mr. Morrison's name; he's more than just an internet expert on the subject of filtration.

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WIX, Fram, NAPA, etc... All of them utilize paper filter media. The manufacturing of paper filter media is not exact. As much as 40% of the filtering area of paper oil filters filter nothing at all, as in the filter is 40% blocked right out of the box.

Plus, how does paper respond to moisture? Right, it absorbs it. What does paper filter media do when it absorbs moisture from engine condensation and then it gets really cold outside. Yep! It freezes. Now your paper filter that was 40% blocked when new is now frozen and is really blocked. Now you have a completely worthless oil filter that's in bypass mode at cold engine start-up until it thaws out.

Do yourself a favor, do your engine a favor and throw out the paper oil filter. Then look for a micro-glass or better yet, a nano-glass oil filter. Previously only available in commercial and industrial applications, glass filter media technology has made it's way to the car and light truck market.

Seriously, research it.

Start here if you like: http://www.youtube.com/user/ckermit8

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Lived in Buffalo Ny most My life (over 60 years) and NEVER heard of an engine failing because of a FROZEN oil filter. How far is this to be taken ?

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Lived in Buffalo Ny most My life (over 60 years) and NEVER heard of an engine failing because of a FROZEN oil filter. How far is this to be taken ?

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"It is not simply a "full oil filter or stasis" situation. With paper pulp having so much of its chemistry composing water, when the filter medium becomes cold soaked at below even 32F, the water molecules can begin freezing and expanding, as only water does when frozen. The expansion fills voids, and thus potential significant filter medium restriction even beyond what paper normally does.
With a synthetic medium, the medium is completely unaffected by cold temperatures and flows as if 85 degrees..." George Morrison, STLE CLS

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In other words, WAY better filtering, and little or no pressure drop accross the filtering surface. It's not too good to be true, it's where modern technology takes us.

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I agree...sounds bogus to me. unless all you do is short trip the car anyway, then it's a possibility.

said paper will also absorb oil. I've seen "paper towels" that would soak up oil, but not water. we used them in centerless grinders for cutting OD on parts, and sometimes the machines leak oil into the coolant tanks when changing the diamond wheels. but I've not seen paper that soaks up water and not oil.

if you drive a car to temp, there's no water in the oil to freeze anywhere after you shut it down and it freezes outside.

that's like saying never, ever let your tank run below 3/4 before filling up, because all that air space allows humid air into your gas tank, where it will cool down overnight, condense, and then you get all kinds of water in your tank causing nothing but problems.

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and filter ability vs flow is one of those trade-offs that you'll never get rid of. the better the filter is at trapping smaller and smaller particles, the less it's going to flow.

my HVAC system at home will collapse a brand new, high dollar, "micro-allergen air filter" because it's a huge airflow restriction. Toss in a cheaper "dust filter" and the airflow is where it needs to be.

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"Regarding "seems too good to be true". Welcome to the world of microglass/synthetic filtration medium. I upgrade industrial applications every day from cellulose to microglass: go from a 30 micron paper element filter to a 6 micron microglass. Vastly improved filtration, in the 90% reduction level, as in the EaO, AND the filter generally lasts 2 to 4 times longer than the cellulose filter it was replacing. How? Generally up to 40% of a cellulose filter element passes nothing, absolutely blocked.. Whereas the microglass or nanofiber (whatever) is 100% flowable filter. So, yes, filtering much finer, flowing much easier and lasting considerably longer, even though it is capturing 90% more particulates... Indeed, it is true......" George Morrison, STLE CLS

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That's why I trust what he say's about lubricant filtration and why I no longer use paper oil filters. But then again, each to his own...

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What ? ...NOW it is only toilet-tissue ones ? ..

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Lived in Buffalo Ny most My life (over 60 years) and NEVER heard of an engine failing because of a FROZEN oil filter. How far is this to be taken ?

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Again, word for word:

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"It is not simply a "full oil filter or stasis" situation. With paper pulp having so much of its chemistry composing water, when the filter medium becomes cold soaked at below even 32F, the water molecules can begin freezing and expanding, as only water does when frozen. The expansion fills voids, and thus potential significant filter medium restriction even beyond what paper normally does.
With a synthetic medium, the medium is completely unaffected by cold temperatures and flows as if 85 degrees..." George Morrison, STLE CLS

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So, could the valve train clatter we periodically hear at could winter start-up be partly attributed to the frozen "paper pulp" media oil filter? Kinda of makes one think a little...

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I have heard plenty of valve clatter at "cold" start when the ambiant air tem is 100+ degrees outside

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Lived in Buffalo Ny most My life (over 60 years) and NEVER heard of an engine failing because of a FROZEN oil filter. How far is this to be taken ?

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Again, word for word:

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"It is not simply a "full oil filter or stasis" situation. With paper pulp having so much of its chemistry composing water, when the filter medium becomes cold soaked at below even 32F, the water molecules can begin freezing and expanding, as only water does when frozen. The expansion fills voids, and thus potential significant filter medium restriction even beyond what paper normally does.
With a synthetic medium, the medium is completely unaffected by cold temperatures and flows as if 85 degrees..." George Morrison, STLE CLS

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So, could the valve train clatter we periodically hear at could winter start-up be partly attributed to the frozen "paper pulp" media oil filter? Kinda of makes one think a little...

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I have heard plenty of valve clatter at "cold" start when the ambiant air tem is 100+ degrees outside

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that clatter at startup could be a lifter blleding off oil from sitting,oil not getting to the top end fast enough or other reseans beyond a "frozen" filter. A few years back...well maybe 20+ We had a cold snap in January where the high was forecasted to be -5. It lasted about a week (cold snap) and never heard of a frozen filter.Maybe the guys in minnesota or wisconsin have input but I know they use block heaters and heated areas alot

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Lived in Buffalo Ny most My life (over 60 years) and NEVER heard of an engine failing because of a FROZEN oil filter. How far is this to be taken ?

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Again, word for word:

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"It is not simply a "full oil filter or stasis" situation. With paper pulp having so much of its chemistry composing water, when the filter medium becomes cold soaked at below even 32F, the water molecules can begin freezing and expanding, as only water does when frozen. The expansion fills voids, and thus potential significant filter medium restriction even beyond what paper normally does.
With a synthetic medium, the medium is completely unaffected by cold temperatures and flows as if 85 degrees..." George Morrison, STLE CLS

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So, could the valve train clatter we periodically hear at could winter start-up be partly attributed to the frozen "paper pulp" media oil filter? Kinda of makes one think a little...

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I have heard plenty of valve clatter at "cold" start when the ambiant air tem is 100+ degrees outside

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that clatter at startup could be a lifter blleding off oil from sitting,oil not getting to the top end fast enough or other reseans beyond a "frozen" filter. A few years back...well maybe 20+ We had a cold snap in January where the high was forecasted to be -5. It lasted about a week (cold snap) and never heard of a frozen filter.Maybe the guys in minnesota or wisconsin have input but I know they use block heaters and heated areas alot

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FULL DISCLOSURE NEEDED

CompSyn, does everyone on this board know you are an Amsoil dealer?

Could this be why you are touting your own product?

Don't your posts belong in the FOR SALE section?



R.

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It should be obvious to anyone that he is a dealer. All you have to do is click on his name if it is not that obvious to you.

On the other hand, he never, to my knowledge, tries to get anyone to buy from him, or from Amsoil, but, he does bring tech data to the table to support his statements.

Seldom does anyone refute the data he presents. I don't see any problem and I do appreciate his efforts to present data rather than making claims followed by a plea to buy something from him.

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After meeting Herb McCandless,I only use Baldwin oil filters.

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That has been my choice for years