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1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine #1104845
10/31/11 06:03 PM
10/31/11 06:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 12
Oil City, Pa
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Darrin Burt Offline OP
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Darrin Burt  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Oil City, Pa
I just joined MoParts

I have a 431 that I am putting together for my 68 Charger. I have a few questions about what parts I need, but first I will list what I have already:

383<431 shortblock, 440 source kit.
Eddy 84 cc ootb heads
No Cam!
Performer rpm intake
TM6 intake
4 speed tranny, 18 spline
Dana 60 rear. Will buy new gears if needed
Quick Fuel hot rod series 780 Vacuum secondary

Here is my situation. I have collected all of the above parts, and I would like to build a real brawler of an engine. This car will be driven on the street as well as the strip, and I am okay with regular maintenance.

My delema is:
1 Cam, solid roller or hydraulic? ?What the heck grind and manufacturer should I pick
2 Valvetrain, what do you guys reccomend?
3 Headers, what size should I be looking for?
4 Can I use an intake I own or should I buy something else?
5 Is the carb above any good, or should I look for semething else?
6 What compression ratio should I shoot for ( 9.3 : 1 right now)
7 Where can I have my heads ported that will do a great job?

If this were a perfect world, what power could this engine be capable of making?

Please respond with the truth, no need to sugarcoat anything for me. If I have crap parts, let me know. If I need to replace anything, I will, and I am not afraid to spend a little coin to get there.

Thanks for the help, and I am glad to be aboard!

Darrin Burt.

( P.s. If anyone needs bodyshop advice that is my bread and butter, I would be happy to help in any way I can. I also picked that size of motor as it is close to the fabled 451, and had a better rod/ stroke ratio than the 496)

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: Darrin Burt] #1104846
10/31/11 06:13 PM
10/31/11 06:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH



The cam will best be determined after the head work is done to get the best bang for the buck.

Koffel's Place did an awesome job on My Eddy heads and they 319.5 @ 600 lift. There is also plenty there if you want to shave em and bring the CR up some.


Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: WILD BILL] #1104847
10/31/11 06:20 PM
10/31/11 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426 Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
WELCOME TO THE STORM!!!
My 408 is mainly a street car, but Im running a solid roller, no issues yet, and Im not very nice to it. Runs hard, and the lash has kept very in spec.

I wouldnt be scared of a solid cam in the street anymore, not like in the old days of hot rodding.

Kasey

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: WILD BILL] #1104848
10/31/11 06:29 PM
10/31/11 06:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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dennismopar73 Offline
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my motor is a 437 383 ,60 over, 440 crank .
eddy heads unported. my head flow 294 ?? for what it's worth,
didn't deck my heads due to fact i zero deck block , and i have big piston close to valve clearance so didn't want to get any closer with what i have. close to 13-1 compression , so good to go,
money being money thing, i could go more but out weighed benifits for what gain?
my cam is a solid racer brown stx 21 105c/l 556
intake is rpm , plan on 9.90-10.0s

WELCOME ABOARD


Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: Darrin Burt] #1104849
10/31/11 06:40 PM
10/31/11 06:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,218
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Online work
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Welcome to this place I have built, dyno tested and raced a lot of different Mopar motors. If it was my car I would(and have ) use the Performer RPM intake, try the carb you have(you can always change it later ) As far as porting those heads I have used both Koffels and Modern Cylinder Heads, MCH has a CNC program that works very well on the RPM I'm not sure if Koffels does all there porting by hand or CNC, call both and talk to them to see which one you want to use As far as real world HP and torque 500 HP is very easy to do with the parts you have now, get the heads done and then decide on which cam and grind to use. I would shoot for 10.5 to 1 comp.(or a little less) ratio with pump gas, try and get a real good quinch out of the parts also I have gotten 1.13 HP per C.I. very easily on pump gas with a small hydraulic flat tappet cam and no quench so that would be 432X1.13= 488 HP, a bigger, better cam with almost identical parts made 1.26 HP per C.I. on the next motor Both had mildly ported 906 iron heads and less compression than I have used with the Eddy RPM non ported motors. What I'm trying to say is you should be able to get 500 HP and 550 ft. lbs torque on pump gas and the right cam Get theads done and then post the flow numbers so we can go to step two, cam selection BTW, you should make sure to have the valve guide to valve stem clearances set when you have them ported some of the guys on this forum have had bad ones(to tight) from Edlebrock in OOTB condition IHTH BTW, do you want to trade your Charger for a real 1969 Dart GTS 383 four speed SO CA car(no rust anywhere), non number matching


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: Cab_Burge] #1104850
10/31/11 06:53 PM
10/31/11 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
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maximum entropy Offline
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those 431s can scream! is it a long rod (6.76)? eddie heads with a moderate hydraulic f/t cam and zero deck would work real good on the street. i have a 383 block under my bench waiting for this same treatment.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: maximum entropy] #1104851
10/31/11 07:10 PM
10/31/11 07:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
Koffel's does all their porting by hand

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: Darrin Burt] #1104852
10/31/11 07:48 PM
10/31/11 07:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,046
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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I assume this is a street engine? If so, any of the mild performance cams that the various vendors offer should work fine. No reason to get carried away with the camshaft choice. Something just a little warmer than a factory Hemi grind would be fine for a street car with 9.3 compression.

The Performer RPM intake is a good choice for a street car. TTi makes good headers or check out Dougs.

The carb should be fine as long as it is in good working condition.

If you want to get the heads ported then call up Dwayne at Porter Racing Heads. He can also sell you a cam and kit that will meet your needs.

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: AndyF] #1104853
10/31/11 08:17 PM
10/31/11 08:17 PM
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ahy Offline
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Sounds like a great engine and fun car. I'll add a few suggestions. For valvetrain, stock style rockers are limited to about .5" lift before the pushrod wants to punch a hole in the rocker. For a strong street/strip engine you will benefit from more lift so some type of aftermarket rocker will help. I like the iron or steel rockers as they are durable and don't have the fatigue concerns of aluminum. Comp "pro-magnum" alloy steel rockers would work great. Crane or Isky ductile iron would work well also. If you do go aluminum, get good ones so they last. I'm running the comps on a BB stroker without problem or drama. .55 lift and about 9,000 miles so far.

For the cam first choice is type. Hydraulic FT, solid FT or roller. If you are staying on the mild side, hydraulic FT would work fine. If you are pushing for performance, I'd go mechanical. The high performance hydraulics seem to be really touchy to set up and aren't quiet either. I don't mind checking lash once in a while and mechanical gives better performance. If you do go flat tappet, make sure to use high zinc oil or zinc additive. I use diesel engine oil + STP. There are other ways to do it; it is very important for FT durability.

Roller has the highest performance potential but is costly to retro-fit and comes with its own challenges and maintenance opportunities.

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: ahy] #1104854
10/31/11 10:14 PM
10/31/11 10:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 12
Oil City, Pa
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Darrin Burt Offline OP
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Darrin Burt  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Oil City, Pa
Thanks for all the replies!!

I will try to answer all the questions, first, the motor is a long rod 6.76 motor. I picked the 431 because I thought that it would have the better ratio.

A Dart gts would be an awesome car and definetly one to be proud of . I would love to have one someday but this charger was my first car at age 16 (I am 29 now). I sold everything but my dog to get the car and fix it up. I just can't get rid of it! I will try to post some pics later.

A solid roller would be my choice of cam but I have heard lots of discussion about street use. I figure if I don't go crazy with my choice I will be okay.

I will reseaarch getting the heads done, and post what I find out. The boards here have a lot of info on them and I am having a good time just reading!

As far as my compression ratio, 93 is easy to come by up here and I figure 10.5-11:0 : 1 would fit the bill.

Like I said, I really want to make a brawler out of it!!

Thanks again to all who have contributed so far, and for the warm welcome I have received. No Chevy's for me!!!

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: AndyF] #1104855
11/01/11 12:21 AM
11/01/11 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Quote:

I assume this is a street engine? If so, any of the mild performance cams that the various vendors offer should work fine. No reason to get carried away with the camshaft choice. Something just a little warmer than a factory Hemi grind would be fine for a street car with 9.3 compression.

The Performer RPM intake is a good choice for a street car. TTi makes good headers or check out Dougs.

The carb should be fine as long as it is in good working condition.

If you want to get the heads ported then call up Dwayne at Porter Racing Heads. He can also sell you a cam and kit that will meet your needs.





I bought my Indy EZ heads from Dwayne Porter and he worked his magic on them. I also bought my solid flat tappet cam and lifters from him and he speced out the cam for me. Dwayne Porter does great work. I agree the RPM is a very good intake as I run the Indy dual plane which looks like an RPM on steroids. I have 10.6 comp with my aluminum EZ heads and I built quench into my eng as it runs fine on 92 pump. Course the cam is large enough (264 & 270 @ .050) to keep the cyl press down for pump gas. Lift comes out at .624 and .630 with 1.6 Rockers. I drive it everywhere and anywhere even to the track. I would try your carb since you have it. You can always try a double pumper type later. I use TTI 2" headers and 3" exh. I do use a 4.15 stroker crank as my combo figures to be right around 600 flywheel hp as thats what it says to push my 3700 lb 63 to 10.70's. Ron

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: Darrin Burt] #1104856
11/01/11 04:24 AM
11/01/11 04:24 AM
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Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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Welcome to moparts! Best website on the web and a lot of knowledge here.
If it were my charger I would run the rpm intake, shoot for 10.5 to 1 and run an xe286 solid roller, and run a 4.10 gear. The carb will work but I prefer a mech secondary. I think a 850-950 would work best. Head porting would make a huge difference too. Also I think a 1 7/8 header would be best.

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: viperblue72] #1104857
11/01/11 10:55 PM
11/01/11 10:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 12
Oil City, Pa
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Darrin Burt Offline OP
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Can anyone tell me a ballpark figure to have the heads done?

Re: 1st post, could use some advice on a 431 B engine [Re: Darrin Burt] #1104858
11/02/11 01:13 AM
11/02/11 01:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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Quote:

Can anyone tell me a ballpark figure to have the heads done?


Call Modenr Cylinder Heads at 586-468-7914 and ask about any winter specials for this year on CNC porting for your heads. Also call Dwayne Prter ( I don't have his number, sorry. He is a member on here so hopefully someone else will post it for you )You might try Shady Dell Speed Shop also and maybe call Brain at Indio Machine shop in Indio,CA Lots of good dudes and choices from this website


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)






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