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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: coro500net]
#1102387
10/30/11 08:20 PM
10/30/11 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
How hard is it to install block side of rope seal with engine in car?
I am one rubber rear main seal #3 (tried all style rear caps)so I am ready to try a rope seal.This is on a 67 440 and it does have the knurl.
Troy just did it twice in the last few days. Once on his car and once on that Landy built Hemi Charger.
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: Troy]
#1102389
11/02/11 07:42 PM
11/02/11 07:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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New update.
I just got my order in from Summit Racing and the FelPro rope seals are here!! They were only $6.45 each BUT I don't like the side seals at all. The rope it's self looks good but they come with a rubber looking round side seals that are 1/2" to short. I have no idea what you should do with them.
PS....I put another 20 miles on my Dart and all is dry, thank God!!
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: Troy]
#1102390
11/30/11 10:53 AM
11/30/11 10:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Today I installed another rope seal in a friends car. Tomorrow we will see if it is fixed. He is on his 4th try. On try second try this is the cap that he took out. Look how off everything is. The mounting holes are off, the crank and seal area are shifted off to one side. I can't believe this is sold to the general public!! 
I just found this thread. Can someone tell me what vendor's retainer this is? I have a billet aftermarket retainer on the engine I am putting together and would like to avoid any problems if possible.
Could it have been made in response to this?
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/archive/index.php/t-23510.html
Thanks.
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1102393
12/01/11 01:43 PM
12/01/11 01:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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I don't know the specific purpose intended by that knurling, nor have I looked at a crank or rope seal that closely, but I just had an unrelated discussion with an oil expert about the fine details of different blends of ATF, so I'm inspired to throw in my .02: Here's my assessment. A lip seal will ride on a thin oil film on a journal. That film actually does the sealing during rotation while protecting the lip of the seal. If that boundary film can escape, though, oil will begin to seep out. So add some pumping grooves (the knurling) so that crankshaft rotation keeps the oil film in place (picture waves that keep a floating object near the shore). I suspect a rope seal is more porous and allows the oil to penetrate it, which then swells it against its sealing surface, and it is kept cool at the rotating boundary by the absorbed oil (which is continuously refreshed to some extent by oil splash). I'm guessing that it has a different boundary layer, perhaps one that is a very tight matrix that prevents the oil molecules from escaping to an extent that would manifest into a user-noticeable amount (aka 'a leak'). Or maybe I'm completely FOS. 
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: bobs66440]
#1102394
12/01/11 04:10 PM
12/01/11 04:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Today I installed another rope seal in a friends car. Tomorrow we will see if it is fixed. He is on his 4th try. On try second try this is the cap that he took out. Look how off everything is. The mounting holes are off, the crank and seal area are shifted off to one side. I can't believe this is sold to the general public!!
I just found this thread. Can someone tell me what vendor's retainer this is? I have a billet aftermarket retainer on the engine I am putting together and would like to avoid any problems if possible.
Could it have been made in response to this?
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/archive/index.php/t-23510.html
Thanks.
Anybody?
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: bobs66440]
#1102395
12/03/11 12:44 AM
12/03/11 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,240
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,240
fredericksburg,va
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i replied once before but I'm going to add a few more points. apply red silicone under the seals,in the groove,just enough so as not ooze out.put some between the block and retainer and a dab on the seal ends then tighten down,this is where it leaks.put a little on the end of the side strips and slide in. but remember this whole area has to be dry, no oil what so ever or the silicone wont stick.let silicone cure for a day. done many engines and no leaks. this operation is just as important as all the big stuff and you can't be in a hurry.same as the oil pan,no oil, torque to factory spec's, no more drip pans on the floor. almost forgot,apply a VERY thin film of Vaseline to the crank journal surface before installing the retainer
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1102396
12/03/11 03:43 PM
12/03/11 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,177
People's Republic of Kali
70runner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,177
People's Republic of Kali
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Quote:
i replied once before but I'm going to add a few more points. apply red silicone under the seals,in the groove,just enough so as not ooze out.put some between the block and retainer and a dab on the seal ends then tighten down,this is where it leaks.put a little on the end of the side strips and slide in. but remember this whole area has to be dry, no oil what so ever or the silicone wont stick.let silicone cure for a day. done many engines and no leaks. this operation is just as important as all the big stuff and you can't be in a hurry.same as the oil pan,no oil, torque to factory spec's, no more drip pans on the floor. almost forgot,apply a VERY thin film of Vaseline to the crank journal surface before installing the retainer
 pretty much what I did on my recent 440 build. Used the 440source viton seals, slight offset, lubed contact area with clevite bearing guard. Stock steel crank out of 68 Imperial. No leaks. 
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: Troy]
#1102399
09/09/12 11:25 PM
09/09/12 11:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 294
Oregon
KillerCuda
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 294
Oregon
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i would like to thank troy for this thread! i have the same combo, 472 hemi, early second gen mopar performance block, eagle crank with grooves. i have had that damn engine out three times for issues, and the rear main being a killer as of late......
after getting no help or support from my engine builder in florida, (i paid A LOT of money for this engine, kind of sad that he took this route with me) i ended up following troy's lead, and going with a rope. i have a little moisture back there, (only have thirty miles on the latest seal), but compared to the water works i had with the other two lip seals, i'll take it.....
i think you might be onto something, saying some people have issues, and others don't, and that maybe it does have something to do with aftermarket parts. both lip seals looked ok, cap measured out ok, (used two different ones) but they just didn't work, no matter how careful they were installed.....
anyway, thanks again troy!
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: KillerCuda]
#1102400
09/10/12 09:31 PM
09/10/12 09:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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Very glad it worked out for you.  I was just outside looking at my engine and all is still well.
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: Troy]
#1102401
09/21/12 04:07 PM
09/21/12 04:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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I just got three more seals off of Ebay!!
FelPro number is BS11748
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: I will never install a rubber rear main seal again!!
[Re: JohnRR]
#1102406
06/08/13 12:00 AM
06/08/13 12:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 294
Oregon
KillerCuda
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 294
Oregon
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Quote:
Troy how is this seal holding up ? I was told by the shop I have been going to recently that these seals are made of something like fiberglass and don't work very well. They suggested that I get rope seals from Best Gasket, they are a graphite material but they are not cheap. I just ordered them from Egge Machine , can not buy directly from Best, 25.12 each ... OUCH
i believe you are correct on the fiberglass make up. i installed one in an engine 11 years ago, and it's leaking, started about six months after installation. i installed this felpro in my same hemi combo as troy, but it leaked. i probably chalk that one up to installer error, even though i thought it looked good upon install and later, removal.
i also installed one of the graphite ropes in my gto, (had VERY troublesome problems getting any seal to work, so i went to the graphite rope), and it has been great. that being said, i firmly believe in the graphite rope. i could not drag the graphite rope seal into/around the hemi crank like the fiber ones, so beware if that is your plan, they don't really like being installed that way, crank out worked best for me, as per the instructions as well.....
D
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Maybe more and more people are just building stroker engines and fewer people are building stock engines. I don't know what the answer is. 
