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Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1094137 10/15/11 04:32 PM 10/15/11 04:32 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	I build my own transmissions, but after this last one with all the high $$$ parts and shipping costs, it would have been easier (and about the same cost) to just buy one from John Cope. I got most of the parts from him anyhow. The issue with the automatic forward shift valve body is it has lower line pressure than a manual valve body. I don't have a good comparison between the valve bodies only. The new engine makes 100 HP more than the old one, and I went to a manual valve body in the new transmission. I think the valve body pressure difference may affect how much slippage there is in the clutches and bands? This front servo kit is "trick", reduces leakage in 2nd and 3rd gear, and applys more force on the front band. http://www.transmissioncenter.org/Sonnax_16.jpg

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1094138 10/15/11 05:19 PM 10/15/11 05:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,858 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,858 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: If I understand correctly, you can adjust the pressure at full throttle to wide open psi in the valve body. However, when you are at PART throttle, and DON'T have full pressure that seems to be the concern. Since the power numbers being discussed only come in near WOT that's not the major concern. The problem with sky-high line pressures in full-auto valve bodies is that all of the other pressures like throttle and governor pressure go up accordingly...if the pressures are high enough, theoretrically, the trans wouldn't upshift until 10,000 rpm. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: BSB67] #1094139 10/16/11 09:10 AM 10/16/11 09:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	Very impresive! I like the fact that the car is drivable and runs as well as it does while dispelling the "standard" thought. You DON'T have to run deep 4+ gears, you CAN make good power with 2.5" exhuast AND stock manifolds! When I get to the exhaust shop, I will be using 2.5" exhaust and am installing Accurate's HEMI mufflers. On TCI's racing calculator, you are making about 568 hp. I notice the shot of the engine on the dyno on your web site. I wondered about the calculation mph vs. weight. What did your engine make on the dyno? 6873620-0708090847[1].jpg (47 downloads)

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: John_Kunkel] #1094140 10/16/11 09:17 AM 10/16/11 09:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	Thanks for the insight John. If I understand correctly, you can't increase the pressure to the clutches/bands without increasing it also to the govenor etc. Therefor, you remove the govenor etc. by installing a manual valve body. Why is this not an issue with GM or Ford auto trans?

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: JohnRR] #1094141 10/16/11 09:31 AM 10/16/11 09:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	You ar of course correct. I DID spend a lot on the engine and WILL end up spending a lot on the trans. I chose the builder as he INSISTED he could build a reliable auto shifting trans for the application. I don't "trash" people on here lightly. I have NEVER mentioned the builders name. Especially since he offered a complete refund. He just got in over his head. I got some good advise from Cope. He said, "a lot of people THINK they are making big power who are NOT" this allows them to get by with something that you may not be able to. There is no doubt that a Cummins is building BIG torque. The fact that you can auto shift it is impressive.

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: gtx6970] #1094142 10/16/11 09:36 AM 10/16/11 09:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	Thanks, I am emailing you for more info.

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1094143 10/16/11 06:31 PM 10/16/11 06:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,858 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,858 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: Why is this not an issue with GM or Ford auto trans? They all work on the same principle, do you know of GM/Fords running really high line pressure with full auto VB's? The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1094144 10/16/11 07:03 PM 10/16/11 07:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA	I don't know what type of hp results the TCI calculator is generating. Of course the calculator is giving an uncorrected, and probably net flywheel hp, but it still seems too high to me. The dyno corrected gross hp was less than 600. It is best to let the weight/mph performance speak for itself, as dyno #'s vary from shop to shop.

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: BSB67] #1094145 10/16/11 07:42 PM 10/16/11 07:42 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Quote: I don't know what type of hp results the TCI calculator is generating. Of course the calculator is giving an uncorrected, and probably net flywheel hp, but it still seems too high to me. The dyno corrected gross hp was less than 600. It is best to let the weight/mph performance speak for itself, as dyno #'s vary from shop to shop. I'd guess your making around 465 HP at the rear wheels?

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: 451Mopar] #1094146 10/16/11 09:17 PM 10/16/11 09:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada RemCharger master
RemCharger master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada	Not sure what the hypes about, Built mine 10 seasons ago and it worked as good on the first run as it did on the last. Thats roughly 120-150 passes a year. Tf-2 and all the regular upgrades, no special equipment. Ran 10s on juice, 5500 stall, never changed. You could; modify the governor(I did), adjust the line pressure with a guage, and modify the ratios of the kickdown linkage levers.

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: RemCharger] #1094147 10/16/11 09:45 PM 10/16/11 09:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,153 Benton, IL. D DaveRS23 Special needs idiot
DaveRS23 Special needs idiot D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,153 Benton, IL.	My Cuda dyno'd at 520RWHP and runs 103 in the 1/8. It shifts about 6,100 with the A&A governor. I have broken a piece or two over the years, but the tranny has worked well for 5 years now. And a man valve body would have not saved the broken pieces. Lastly, on a street car, traction is so compromised that the tranny won't have to handle but a moderate amount of the real torque available. Master, again and still

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: DaveRS23] #1094148 10/16/11 10:02 PM 10/16/11 10:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA	Quote: Lastly, on a street car, traction is so compromised that the tranny won't have to handle but a moderate amount of the real torque available. Exactly.

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: BSB67] #1094149 10/16/11 10:55 PM 10/16/11 10:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 541 chatham, Ilinois F fox super street
fox super street F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 541 chatham, Ilinois	Can someone explain why the diesel guys are running around with 2-3 times the torque you are making and do it everyday with no issues? There are 47 series trans in these trucks making 600-800 hp with twice that in torque. I'm making 450-500 with mine and it has been great for 140,000 miles. your motor won't hurt this trans!

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: fox] #1094150 10/17/11 09:11 AM 10/17/11 09:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,218 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,218 Someplace you aren't	There used to be an electronic VB that allowed changes to shift RPM's via a little control pad that you wired inside the car. Since it controls shift RPM at the VB, could you skirt the issues w/ high line pressure at the governor? Or maybe it still used the governor? Been a long time since I even saw one listed, let alone the specs.

Re: How much power can an automatic valve body handle? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #1094151 10/17/11 05:25 PM 10/17/11 05:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	the newer diesel trannys have lots of good parts like extra clutches and pinions in the planataries. More clutch area increases TQ holding capabilities at any given line preasure. Get as many clutches in it as you can and eliminate the wavy snap rings and get as much line preasure as you can and it will be fine. I saw a sighn the otherday advertisiing the cummins in the trucks is now produceing 800lbs from the factory so with the right parts you are good to go. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

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