Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: ademon]
#1089412
10/06/11 08:53 PM
10/06/11 08:53 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
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Warrenton, VA
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Quote:
Finding the carb and having it replated and rebuilt will cost $500 if your going to do it right, and thats just a run of the mill AVS
$325
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: JohnRR]
#1089413
10/06/11 09:28 PM
10/06/11 09:28 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
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$500 labor on the engine ??? 3275 for parts ??? What about machining costs ?
$35k may not be too far off but it should be understood that it is just an estimate. I would not guarantee the total cost of a job like that. I would charge him your hourly rates and bill your hours and costs on parts and material weekly and let him pay as you go. He would have to trust you to keep accurate track of your hours and can't argue too much about costs of materials and parts. Let him make the decisions as to what parts to restore or replace. It's bound to add up to more than you can estimate and your customer could not get more fair of a deal.
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: RoadRunnerJD]
#1089414
10/06/11 09:37 PM
10/06/11 09:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906 IL, Aurora
ademon
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Quote:
Quote:
Finding the carb and having it replated and rebuilt will cost $500 if your going to do it right, and thats just a run of the mill AVS
$325
is that with the carb? or just the replate/rebuild? he's missing the carb.
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: ademon]
#1089415
10/06/11 10:08 PM
10/06/11 10:08 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
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Quote:
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Quote:
Finding the carb and having it replated and rebuilt will cost $500 if your going to do it right, and thats just a run of the mill AVS
$325
is that with the carb? or just the replate/rebuild? he's missing the carb.
You're right! My mistake! That's just the carb resto. A decent complete carb will be from $100-$200. $500 is a good estimate. I have $470 in my AVS.
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1089416
10/06/11 10:16 PM
10/06/11 10:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,252 Sebring, Florida
Mopar Grandpa
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Sebring, Florida
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this the one you emailed me about?
Yes it is. Keep it quiet though. Needs both quarters, wheelhouses, trunk floor, main floor, trunk extensions, and some inner fender work by the battery. Will be using AMD stuff for ease of availability.
Keep in mind that even though you are planning to use the AMD products, which are probably the best out there, they will probably not fit perfectly. My AMD quarters required quite a bit of massaging around the rear window area and at the tail light extensions. Mine was a '69 RR.
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: Mopar Grandpa]
#1089417
10/07/11 02:09 AM
10/07/11 02:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
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I've have built cars for myself for under 10k. I did a 70 roadrunner for 4k. That was using a lot of parts I have from parts cars, some trading, and not being concerned if for exapmle the bumpers and other chrome parts were perfect. Also reusing door panels, like if the vinyl was good, gluing on to boards I cut myself and so on. I did the 4k roadrunner in less than 4 months at maybe 20 hours a week for 3 of the 4 months. I didn't do the underside on that one.
For someone elses car, if a lower end resto, I mean, not everything redone or to factory original. Done to be a nice driver, needing panels, I still think your looking at 10k for parts alone on the low end. That would be using the low line of paints like nason or omni. So if your charging 25 an hours, that gets you to your estimate. However I'd be prepared to work some hours for free cause chances are 1000 hours won't cut it on a rusty car.
Now I'm assuming when you say resto, your talking a complete resto, underside and all. Now if your just doing a topside, suspension, brakes, etc... then 35k is actually pretty decent in my eyes to make. I got about a 3rd of that for a car I did last year that was a rotiserrie done car, but didn't need any interior work, engine/trans and the owner did the front suspension himself. Also pretty rust free and straight.
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1089419
10/07/11 09:40 AM
10/07/11 09:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,406 New Jersey, USA
yella71
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
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New Jersey, USA
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Resto work is time and materials. thats what it is. This is not a cheap hobby.some jobs cost more some less you ll find out when your done if you priced it right and only experance will help you for the future
71 challenger convertable, 64 sport fury 383 ci with factory air
99 sebring convertable
89 CTD pup
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: yella71]
#1089420
10/07/11 09:58 AM
10/07/11 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,376 NORTHERN CA
HUSTLESTUFF
pro stock
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pro stock
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NORTHERN CA
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I would think $20k plus parts and subs would put you in a better position. That way if he decides the bumpers don't look quite good enough he coughs up the extra, not you. I know I had $17.5 in parts for a driver cuda, because the used stuff wouldn't look as good. Mike
"Were in it to win it. Anything less will end up being..... A whole lot of fun doing!!" UNLAWFL RIP UN
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: DPelletier]
#1089421
10/07/11 02:42 PM
10/07/11 02:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 936
OLD318
super stock
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super stock
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The body shop that did my '69 car had over 670 hours in it but the thing is dead straight. Paint materials, depending on the color, will probably cost you over $2,000 which includes primers, bondo, sandpaper, tape, etc., etc. I think you'll be surprised at the final cost.
I would be happy to send you the 11 page breakdown of my parts and labor charges. Just PM me with your e-mail address.
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All that changes is the labor rate; we've all been saying that a proper resto will take 1000 hrs give or take and the part cost is the same no matter where you are.
Even if you charge yourself out at $20/hr and don't have to pay rent, insurance, taxes, upkeep, tool replacement, etc. etc. it is still going to break down something like this;
- parts & materials: $20,000
- farmed out component resto and specialty labor: $ 10,000
- 1000 hrs at $20/hr: 20,000
Total: $50,000
All I know is that I could have done ALL the labor by myself for free and I still would have spent more than your $35k budget. I would take the offer given above and take a look at a spreadsheet for a complete nut and bolt resto to make sure you haven't missed or underestimated significant items.
Do what you like, but I think you're making a big mistake and will be working for free. If we could all get quality resto work done where you live for 1/3rd the going rate, we'd all be doing that.
OTOH, if you don't have any bills to pay, maybe it's a good idea to do this one and then you'll know for sure one way or the other.
Dave
Dave is absolutely right about the costs..And I'll bet his prices are circa 2005-2010...
The parts and materials alone to take even a complete 40+ year old mopar B or E body from rags to really sweet driver will cost you upwards of 40K... Thats just parts and materials only...
If there is stuff you are not gonna do... then yes, you can subtract from that.
Perhaps the biggest pitfall in restoration is this: Once you have one part of the car looking all shiny new.. the old stuff really sticks out...
So you get stuck very quickly trying to make everything look new.. That is a very time-consuming and expensive proposition...
For example, what about all the chrome? You think you can get that done for $500? Not a chance... Nuts and bolts? You gonna use those old bolts on your new freshly painted engine? or are you buy shiny new ones? Easily $500 - $1000 just for nuts /bolts and hardware... Wanna blast and refinish them yourself? You can try that..good luck!
What about shipping costs for new parts? For the 100's of parts you absolutely have to replace the shipping costs alone will add up to 100's of dollars if not a thousand or more...
FWIW, let me implore you, Dave is not lying to you!
Having been there and done it myself I can honestly look in the mirror and say this:
For the time, effort, and cost in most cases, if you want a restored car, the average person is way better off buying one already done as close as you can get to what you want, then going through the cost, hassle and aggrevation of doing one yourself or paying someone to do one from scratch..
Obviously, for some people and some cars (R/T, superbee, gtx etc) this doesn't apply... but for most people and situations I think it does.
Most are for sale for half of what it would cost to do one yourself.
For example: Once in a while, I see some really nice Chargers/Coronets/ etc. on ebay for 25-35K... Having been there and done it, there is no way I could take a projct car and get it to that condition for that price.. Plus all the time and aggrevation...
In the end, anybody can work for free... Heck, you can do easy desk work for $10.00 hour... Why would you kill yourself on an old car for that? Your lungs (from all the dust and overspray alone) are worth alot more than that..
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1089422
10/07/11 03:04 PM
10/07/11 03:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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IMO you way under bid this one. I rebuilt my 71 challenger completely. It needed no sheet metal, it was rust free. I kept detailed records and all reciepts. I have 40K into it with me doing 99.9% of the work myself. I busted my azz to get it done. I wouldn't do the labor for anything less than 20K. I think your 20 under where you need to be, plus you have rust!!!
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1089423
10/07/11 03:51 PM
10/07/11 03:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
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I Live Here
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I agree with you guys above, I do think he priced it too low. But like I mentioned, depending on the extent of it, there still could be room for a nice profit, although it could be a lot more. I've done nice driver cars for people and then when done they thought this or that should have been done or expected show worthy for driver resto cost. So I think your communication will be key. Say there 15-20k to be made in labor over 4-6 months. To me thats decent money. I had jobs I worked a year made that kind of money. Not everyone is out to get rich. I could charge double of what I do or more, but that scares away a lot of business and I look at it this way: I get to do something I love and work when I want. To some that means way more than the money made.
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: RoadRunnerJD]
#1089424
10/07/11 04:22 PM
10/07/11 04:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
I say you're foot is bleeding.
I don't have time to give you a complete breakdown, but $35k wouldn't cover the cost of parts and the drivetrain in my case.
I have over $100k in my resto, but my car was missing lots of stuff which significantly added to the cost. If it was together and complete, I probably could have saved $20 - $30k. Also, I spent good money on many repop parts that weren't good enough to use and also I bought quite a few spares.
Bottom line is that I spent $50k on metal work, body work, paint, panel alignment and body reassembly. Shop had over 600 hours charged to the car which I have every reason to believe is accurate. At a pretty cheap charge out rate of $50/hr that's $30,000 in labor alone. (If you want more detail on exactly what metal work was done and how many hours were spent, let me know and I'll dig it out.)
....then you can add in the engine, tranny, driveshaft, rear end, dash and gauges, interior, exhaust, suspension, etc. etc. Even the sub assy's that Jules did for me (steering column, wiper motor and linkage, e-brake assy, heater box) added up to a fair chunk of change.
I just don't see how a quality rotisserie restoration by skilled workers can cost any less than $50 - $60k.....heck, lots of people have indicated that they have 1000 - 2000 hours in thier resto and even at the cheapest rates possible for a real and viable business, it simply adds up.
Dave
Hits nail squarly on head!
I'll add to that, it really doesn't matter which car you start with, average to restore ANYTHING to an equal level isn't all that different
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1089425
10/07/11 05:20 PM
10/07/11 05:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,252 Sebring, Florida
Mopar Grandpa
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Sebring, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
this the one you emailed me about?
Yes it is. Keep it quiet though. Needs both quarters, wheelhouses, trunk floor, main floor, trunk extensions, and some inner fender work by the battery. Will be using AMD stuff for ease of availability.
I hope you sincerely understand that those that have posted are trying to help you and not discourage you. Having said that if you have as much rust in this car as you indicated above I guarantee you you are going to find a lot more rust in areas that you can't see until you start removing the panels, floors, etc. Just make sure the owner understands you don't have x-ray vision. And if you don't address all of the rusty areas they will eventually raise their ugly little heads and the owner will be back to your shop for an unpleasant discussion. Dot your I's and cross you T's.
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Re: A matter of opinion: resto cost
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1089427
10/07/11 11:58 PM
10/07/11 11:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417 Caledon, Ontario
smac77
mopar
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mopar
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Caledon, Ontario
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I rarely get a complete job to do. Mostly do total body/paint and customers assemble. Get quite a few engines/trans too. I have one coming in. Total job. The car is very complete and original. Needs only a carb to be found. Needs complete rear body panels and floor. No frame work needed. Underside will be done in primer type deatil. Total interior redo, seat covers ect. Engine will be done all new and slightly internally warmed over. Rebuild trans. Rear gear swap and rebuild. Suspension redo and powder coated. In short the car comes to me as it is. Not running and rusty. It gets delivered back in very, very nice driver quality, no paint daubs, overpray type details, turn key style. I came up with just north of 35,000 parts and labor. Opinions: is he going to take a swing at me or is my foot bleeding from a self inflicted injury?
you'll be ok north of $35k as long as you aren't on the hook for all the parts... I'd quote him less on labour based on a set amount of work plus parts and materials... any surprises are extra. You have no way of knowing what will and will not work, break or just plain be unusable after 40 years of neglect until you get it removed and in your hands. The worst thing any restorer can do is get themselves in a position where they are trying to cut corners to make a flat rate. The work you've been doing to date (body and paint for customer to assemble) is the easy part to quote. It's the little bits and peices that kill you...
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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