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small block windage tray vs crankscrapper #1084794
09/28/11 11:46 PM
09/28/11 11:46 PM
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Mb Can
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demonstrator Offline OP
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Mb Can
which is better for oil control ?

Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: demonstrator] #1084795
09/29/11 02:34 AM
09/29/11 02:34 AM
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Posts: 43,219
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Quote:

which is better for oil control ?


If your talking about the stock Mopar SB windage tray loose it, it don't work If you make your own, I do, crankshaft scrapers work really well as long as you keep it really tight around all the rotating parts, less than .060 and more than .030 (if aluminum rods make it .90 to .120 around the rods, check sideways movement on the rods also, front to back)) Make sure and provide some drain holes(at least a 1/2 inch diameter) near the main caps also does your oil pan have slosh baffles, accelerations and deacellerations? If not add them also

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/29/11 01:24 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: demonstrator] #1084796
09/29/11 12:51 PM
09/29/11 12:51 PM
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Florida
Locomotion Offline
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I quit using trays years ago.
The OEM Mopar tray just looks like it can retain too much oil despite the "vents". No small block Stockers that I know of use OEM trays.

Crank scraper source.

Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: demonstrator] #1084797
09/29/11 02:03 PM
09/29/11 02:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060
Western New York
sixpackbee Offline
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Western New York
Scrapper only.


1959 Bugeye Sprite
1967 Charger Black L code
1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner
1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM
1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96
1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car
1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85
1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96
1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13
1971 MG Midget
1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57
1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: sixpackbee] #1084798
09/30/11 01:00 PM
09/30/11 01:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 348
South Lyon, Michigan
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6bblRoadrunner Offline
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Good thread. Anyone have a picture of a scraper mounted to the block they'd like to share?

Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: 6bblRoadrunner] #1084799
09/30/11 01:04 PM
09/30/11 01:04 PM
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Florida
Locomotion Offline
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Quote:

Good thread. Anyone have a picture of a scraper mounted to the block they'd like to share?




You'll find the all the pics you need here:

Ishihara-Johnson crank scrapers website.

Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: Locomotion] #1084800
09/30/11 04:22 PM
09/30/11 04:22 PM
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sweden
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sshemi Offline
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sweden
I dont think i would use a crank scrapper.

Sorry couldnt resist.

Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: sshemi] #1084801
09/30/11 05:13 PM
09/30/11 05:13 PM
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Florida
Locomotion Offline
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Quote:

I dont think i would use a crank scrapper.

Sorry couldnt resist.





Hey, they pay good money for scrap metal now and cranks weigh a lot!

Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: Locomotion] #1084802
10/01/11 10:59 AM
10/01/11 10:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 348
South Lyon, Michigan
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6bblRoadrunner Offline
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South Lyon, Michigan
Locomotion...thanks for the link.

Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: 6bblRoadrunner] #1084803
10/01/11 01:27 PM
10/01/11 01:27 PM
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Phila Pa
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scatpacktom Offline
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Myron, Can you give us a idea what a scraper was worth in a car like yours. I have one in my 416 and I'm not sure I noticed a improvement, but because I don't have slicks I'm not sure I would. I would imagine your car is a little more repeatable?

Re: small block windage tray vs crankscrapper [Re: scatpacktom] #1084804
10/01/11 02:41 PM
10/01/11 02:41 PM
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Florida
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Tom,

Unfortunately I've never been in a position to do any kind of comparisons. Never been on a dyno and each engine I've had built had extra tweeks or changes that made it too different from the previous one to make a valid comparison.

All I know is what I've read and heard.
I know several racers with similar combos that don't run a windage tray. But I would imagine that there may be some that still do. Just trying to imagine the windage the crank creates make me think that a lot of the oil dripping down from the cam area and "leaking" out from the bearings gets trapped above the tray. The vents are letting some out, but the rest of the tray seems like it can act like a slide for the rest of the oil to get thrown back up into the engine and spinning crank. In the '70's, ED Hamburger, the 340/360 "guru" suggested bending open the OEM tray vents to make bigger "windows" for the oil to escape from. He even stamped EXTRA louvers in the trays he sold. The tray does, however, help shield the oil in the sump from the crank-induced windage that can stir it up if the oil level is too close. Personally I use a Milodon 8 qt. pan with only a scraper. But I only run 5 quarts of oil to keep it away from the crank. Some people may run a bit less for qualifying or heads-up runs looking for that extra .01 in ET. But everything has to be scienced-out (bearing clearances, volume, drain-back rate, etc.) so you don't run the pan dry.

When Hamburger got into oil pans later, many had scrapers built in. I always thought screens were a good idea also because of all the little built-in vents that allowed more oil to escape. Many other brand oil pans, like many race Milodon pans, also have built-in scrapers as well as some with a kick-out along the pan rail to give the "scraped" oil extra room to be directed away from the rotating assembly. But cost and chassis/header clearances don't allow many pans to use all the available "tricks".

Hypothetically, if it's a 5-10 hp improvement, I don't think it could be felt. It might be more. But even with a scraper, how well it is fitted to the rotating assembly will dictate how much it helps. So I can't say how much it does help, but I wouldn't have changed over if I didn't think it did. The chance for a heads-up run in my classes, J/CM or K/CM, is slim. But a NC Corvette racer recently installed a 350/300hp crate in it by a well know Stock engine builder and is running about 3 tenths faster than I can in J/CM. Scraper is staying and I'm hoping to have a legal combo installed soon to catch up with in case I have to run him heads-up next year.

Crank scraper tech info.







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