FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
#1079585
09/21/11 12:20 AM
09/21/11 12:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,639 Brandon, Ms
cornet684me
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Brandon, Ms
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i just put a set of 15x7 steel wheels on my 68'dodge coronet, 225 70 15 on the front and 275 60 15 on the back, when i turned into a store i heard something rub, i got back home and found out that my drivers side front end is setting at 26 1/4" from the floor to the top lip on the wheel well and the passenger side is almost 27 1/2" and i noticed that my bottom of front tire is in further than the top. i am trying to get the car ready for a about 400 mile round trip, the front end was completely rebuilt several years ago and i had the front end aligned up, i have not put over 5000miles since all this was done. the guy that did the front end alignment was younger, i do not think hed knew too much about the torsion bar front end, is this just a needing a front end alignment problem? i was thinking that i needing to crank up on the driver's side torsion bar to give me the lift? and then have the toe end and caster and camber reset? am i on the right track?
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: rave_12000]
#1079588
09/21/11 12:34 AM
09/21/11 12:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,639 Brandon, Ms
cornet684me
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well, i guess i failed to mention i did have a problem during the rebuild, my power steering gear box locked up and i ended up in the ditch, with the 14" road wheels, i did not notice the difference, i have checked everything and everything looks to be okay, so i guess i am off to the frond end shop this week
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: cornet684me]
#1079589
09/21/11 12:38 AM
09/21/11 12:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,639 Brandon, Ms
cornet684me
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i did not hit the ditch hard, i had just left my driveway and the gear box froze up and put me in the ditch, i do remember when i had the car aligned after the front end rebuild, the young guy that did it, really was confused about the height and ride of the torsion bar set up, he said that he adjusted them but did not know if he got it right, he did not have any specs for this. i have also gone from a 318 to 440 and i did not change the torsion bars out, do you think the alignment shop can adjust on torsion bars a couple of notches to get me the 3/4 to 1" i need? i really do not understand torsion bar front in myself? thanks
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: cornet684me]
#1079593
09/21/11 03:54 PM
09/21/11 03:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,312 SoCal
68HemiB
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,312
SoCal
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Okay, that ditch picture brings back memories of your earlier posts.
Not that it matters to the question at hand, but did you ever resolve your power steering issue, or did you end up converting to manual steering?
Some observations and comments about your situation and the comments posted by others:
1. The factory specs for ride height are from the floor to a point not affected by the subtleties and foibles of sheet metal. Practically speaking, the real world usually does it by sight or with a tape measure at the fender lip. The heights that people end up with are all over the map, and absent other complications (like a fender lip eating up a tire), this shade-tree approach usually works. There are two important points to remember, though. Get the height the same from side-to-side, and do all height adjustments BEFORE getting the alignment done.
2. Changing camber, caster, and toe do not appreciably change the ride height.
3. No old car exists absent a history. The history of yours includes a close encounter of the ditch kind, and if memory serves, a 440 swap on top of non big block torsion bars. Your choices to keep the old t-bars and not have the front end professionally inspected for damage after the ditch incident are making your life more complicated.
4. Mopar front-ends are surprisingly intolerant of curbs and ditches. This is especially true where the LCA pivot shaft passes through its mounting tube in the K member. At least one poster has previously observed that you might have a problem there. You should now increase that count by another poster.
5. The same size tire that fits on one car may not fit another sample of that identical model. Variables that affect this include but are not limited to wheel offset, ride height, variations found among mass-produced products, and the phase of the moon.
6. You might be able to keep your existing t-bars, adjust the ride height up on the side that is rubbing [and get the car re-aligned], keep your existing wheel/tire combo on the front, and have it no longer rub. You might not.
Down to just a blue car now.
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: 68HemiB]
#1079594
09/21/11 08:06 PM
09/21/11 08:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,639 Brandon, Ms
cornet684me
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i have to say i know to all of the above, i have called front end shop and talked with an older gentleman, he seem to be pretty knowledgeable on mopars, he was working on a 59 dodge when i called. i am going to take the car into his shop and have him to look it over and let me know what the verdict is. thanks for all the great info and knowledge, i am going to take off 1 day next week and take it to the shop and baby sit while he does it. i did fix the power steering problem, i went to manual steering
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: cornet684me]
#1079596
09/21/11 09:46 PM
09/21/11 09:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,059 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
does anybody haved a pic of what a LCA stud mounting tube looks like? how will the front end shop fix this if this is the problem?
They will have to pull the torsion bar and the LCA and weld the the back in place , assuming it's repairable .
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: cornet684me]
#1079598
09/21/11 09:56 PM
09/21/11 09:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
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Quote:
that does not sound good, can i jack the car up and look for this myself? i really do not know alot about the front end as you can tell
Usually the crack is at the front of the K, viewing with the LCA in can be tough. Need a bright flashlight and a good eye.
The fix involves a mig welder and a beefy flatwasher - after the LCA and T-bar are removed.
Rick
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: cornet684me]
#1079603
09/21/11 11:01 PM
09/21/11 11:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,059 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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i cld local parts house, they cannot get these, i have found a used set on ebay. here we go again
A USED set ???? are you nuts ? you pretty much have to destroy them or the LCA to get them out...
Yes you can buy new bushings at the local parts store , better yet go on ebay and buy a set from bill rolik , he is a member here , they are better quality , BUT you are going to have to remove the lower control arms to do it , may as well get a set of torsion bars and do then on both side
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: ahy]
#1079604
09/21/11 11:02 PM
09/21/11 11:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,059 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Quote:
Yes bushings are available - likley a 2-3 day order. Not all rubber parts are created equal though. I would trust Moog or NAPA Premium. Mancini, Firm Feel and Rock Auto carry them as well. Its a bit of a job changing them. If you haven't done it before and have a friendly local machine shop or experienced garage, it may be easiest to have them press/chisle out the old and press in the new.
I might go with NAPA premium before Moog , the last MOOG stuff I bought was made over there
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: JohnRR]
#1079606
09/22/11 05:28 PM
09/22/11 05:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 936
OLD318
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super stock
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Quote:
Isn't ride height measured from the ground to the framerail ?
No, according to the FSM it is measured from the ground to the bottom of the lower control pivot where the torsion bar inserts into the LCA.
While not as well known, the frames on these cars can be off a quarter inch from side to side and still be considered "in spec". FWIW, That's a country mile by todays standards...
Obviously, You can compensate for this by dialing up the LCA on the low side to even out the ride height.
I've personally seen cars (B-Bodies) where the LCA Bolt is deep inside the LCA on one side and way outside on the other side (almost a full inch difference!) and yet the car looks level and aligns!
But if this "difference" was noticable right after the ditch incident you have either bent the frame or you seriouly smacked the LCA/torsion bar etc....
To rule out the frame, how do the fender to door gaps look? Hood to fender? etc... Does the hood open and close easily and straight?
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: 68HemiB]
#1079607
09/22/11 07:58 PM
09/22/11 07:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,639 Brandon, Ms
cornet684me
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the front end was completely rebuilt about 5000 miles ago, i think hitting the ditch did in my LCA bushing, i do not see anymore visual damage, i have jack up and down on the front end looking for more trouble, i am taking to front end shop on monday i did find the Moog LCA bushing and yes it was a 2day wait, however worked out great, cannot get the car into front end shop till monday. thanks for all the help and cross your fingers that i may get by with just a bushing change and an alignment
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: OLD318]
#1079608
09/22/11 08:09 PM
09/22/11 08:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,639 Brandon, Ms
cornet684me
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OP
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that picture of the car in the ditch looks worse than it was, i had just backed out of my drive way and i was about 2 houses down from mine in my neighborhood and i was creeping due to the fact i knew i already had a problem, i ran into the ditch at maybe 5 to 10mph. so i doubt that i have any frame damage or major damage. all the door , hood , fender gaps are fine. the only way i found the 3/4 to inch difference in the passenger and drivers side is, when i switched from 14inch tires and wheels to 15inch, i turned into a store and heard the driver's tire rub on the top of the front fender bracket. i then got out my yard stick and measured the height and found the difference. with the 14inch magnums i did not notice it, i have driven the car about 200miles since the ditch and no other problems were found, no noise in the front end, nothing, so maybe this will not be serious, but with my luck with this car it maybe something serious
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: cornet684me]
#1079610
09/23/11 11:46 AM
09/23/11 11:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 936
OLD318
super stock
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super stock
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Quote:
does anybody have the factory specs on ride height for a 1968 dodge coronet R/T with 15inch wheels and tires? i have read that the 68'dodge coronet did come with an 15inch option
Ride height isn't a "spec" in the FSM.
According to the FSM it's measured as the difference between:
Point A: The distnace of the bottom of the torsion bar mount on the lower control arm to the ground
Point B: The distance from the bottom of the lower ball joint to the ground
With Point A always being greater than point B...
The exact measurement (difference) isn't stated, they just need to be the same on both sides of the car to within 1/8 of inch...
FWIW, you can also buy a ride height guage from summit etc for around $30.00.... most people only need it once or twice though!
Basically your measuring the pitch on the lower control arms under full load from the k frame to the lower ball join. They should be pitched downward from the k frame.
Hope this helps...
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: OLD318]
#1079611
09/23/11 02:31 PM
09/23/11 02:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271 Vista, California
67Satty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
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Vista, California
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Quote:
Quote:
does anybody have the factory specs on ride height for a 1968 dodge coronet R/T with 15inch wheels and tires? i have read that the 68'dodge coronet did come with an 15inch option
Ride height isn't a "spec" in the FSM.
According to the FSM it's measured as the difference between:
Point A: The distnace of the bottom of the torsion bar mount on the lower control arm to the ground
Point B: The distance from the bottom of the lower ball joint to the ground
With Point A always being greater than point B...
The exact measurement (difference) isn't stated, they just need to be the same on both sides of the car to within 1/8 of inch...
FWIW, you can also buy a ride height guage from summit etc for around $30.00.... most people only need it once or twice though!
Basically your measuring the pitch on the lower control arms under full load from the k frame to the lower ball join. They should be pitched downward from the k frame.
Hope this helps...
My old Chilton's book shows the spec as 1 and 7/8" difference between point A and point B (plus or minus 1/8").
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Re: FRONT END PROBLEMS WITH B-BODY
[Re: cornet684me]
#1079613
09/24/11 11:54 PM
09/24/11 11:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,639 Brandon, Ms
cornet684me
OP
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OP
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UPDATE*****the lower LCA bushing are not bad, the rubber i thought i saw was actually grass and mud from the ditch, i raised the left side torsion bar and every thing is even at 27inches, not rubbing, had a local front end shop look at the front end, they said front end look okay, everything is tight, so i dodged a bullet on this one, the frontend guy did suggest the larger bars, he sd the car wld handle better with the larger bars due to the big block> thanks for the input here
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