|
factory 440 compression heights
#1076856
09/18/11 01:18 AM
09/18/11 01:18 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
viperblue72
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
|
Is there anywhere I can find the compression heights for factory 440s for all years? I am building a budget 1978 440 std. bore for my power wagon and have a few 440s laying around also. So I am curious if it is worthwhile for me to use some factory pistons from a different 440. I know the 78' pistons are WAY down there in the hole.
Or list how far down in the hole they are! I have a 67' 440 and a 72 440. Im guessing the 72 and 78 are the same. The 67 I am guessing are about .085 in the hole, being it is 10to1 with 75cc heads.
Last edited by viperblue72; 09/18/11 01:34 AM.
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: viperblue72]
#1076857
09/18/11 02:34 AM
09/18/11 02:34 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
Quote:
Is there anywhere I can find the compression heights for factory 440s for all years? I am building a budget 1978 440 std. bore for my power wagon and have a few 440s laying around also. So I am curious if it is worthwhile for me to use some factory pistons from a different 440. I know the 78' pistons are WAY down there in the hole.
Or list how far down in the hole they are! I have a 67' 440 and a 72 440. Im guessing the 72 and 78 are the same. The 67 I am guessing are about .085 in the hole, being it is 10to1 with 75cc heads.
Not sure about the 66-67 440s compression height, but i'm guessing there about the same as the 68-71s but not possitive, the Standard 66-67 440s had 516 closed chambered heads, the 68-71 standard 440 pistons were around .080"-.090" below deck, with a 91cc 906 head & thin gasket the compression was around 8.7 give or take, The 6 pack 440 had the pistons about .019" below deck, the compression was around 9.7 give or take, The later 440s had the pistons down around .150"-.160" below & the compression was around 7.8 give or take, Not sure about the HP 440 pistons, But from what i've been told over the years, The 440 Magnums & Super Commando had an HP package, I'm sure it had the 6 pack rods, HP manifolds, Magnum cam & better springs ect., larger Carter carb, But it ran the same piston height as the non-HP 440s, The Standard 440s from 68-71 used the same intake as the HP 440 but they came with a smaller Holley VS carb & Start retard on the dizzy, I've heard rumor the HP 440s ran the 6 pack pistons, but have heard No also  .
I really like the 68-71 440s, the compression is just right for a factory piston at 8.7 on todays premium, They have really good torque then the later smoggers, I had a 69 NewYorker that was a pure "monster" in stock form, That car was a blast to drive & the Alt. in that area was 2800ft., A relative of mine had a 74 NewYorker in Fla., he thought it was a runner, The car was a "complete" Pig & i laughed my ass off when he would get on it   .
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: viperblue72]
#1076860
09/18/11 08:06 AM
09/18/11 08:06 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
|
Quote:
Is there anywhere I can find the compression heights for factory 440s for all years? I am building a budget 1978 440 std. bore for my power wagon and have a few 440s laying around also. So I am curious if it is worthwhile for me to use some factory pistons from a different 440. I know the 78' pistons are WAY down there in the hole.
Or list how far down in the hole they are! I have a 67' 440 and a 72 440. Im guessing the 72 and 78 are the same. The 67 I am guessing are about .085 in the hole, being it is 10to1 with 75cc heads.
Without looking anything up and going by memory, it is something like this
67 hp - CH 2.00", 0.080" to 0.090" in the hole
68-69 hp - CH 2.03", 0.050" to .060" in the hole
6 pac - CH 2.06", 0.020" to 0.030" in the hole.
I have measurements of this somewhere, if you want it more exact.
I know that a 2.03 replacement piston has not been around for a while, unless someone has started making them in the last few years.
The actual compression difference between the 2.03 and six pack 2.06 piston is not that much as the six pack piston has about 6cc of valve relief in it....again, from memory.
Building a pump gas 440 with quench using factory pistons and heads is difficult. No matter how you mix and match, either you have a decent CR, and the piston is 0.060 in the hole (closed chamber head), or you have a good quench, and the CR is 11:1.
Last edited by BSB67; 09/18/11 08:25 AM.
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: viperblue72]
#1076862
09/18/11 10:20 AM
09/18/11 10:20 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
Quote:
Joedust.
So you're saying 68-71 440s had 8.7 compression when they were advertised anywhere from 9.7 to 10.1? It seems they would be a real dog at that compression ratio.
Yes, the 68-70 definitly, The 71 might be a tad lower but i don't think so, They through those compression ratios all around back then, Why would you think a 440 with close to 9.1 would be a dog, They were torque monsters & "built" for that, alot was in the small cam designs, as were the pontiac 455, Buick 455 & Olds 455, & in reality those "standard" big car engines weren't but 9.1 tops but fell off sharply in 72-73. You pull a head off the 70 455 GMs & they had dished pistons, even the earlier ones, but they rated them at 10.5, 11.1 in some books yeah right. Have you even been behind the wheel of a 70 Olds 98 with the 455, Or the Pontiac SJ 455 GP. Or a 70 Buick Wildcat or Lasabra, KIick ass big boats back in those years along with the NewYorker, by 72 they started going down hill in perf.
Last edited by joedust451; 09/18/11 10:38 AM.
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: BSB67]
#1076863
09/18/11 10:43 AM
09/18/11 10:43 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Is there anywhere I can find the compression heights for factory 440s for all years? I am building a budget 1978 440 std. bore for my power wagon and have a few 440s laying around also. So I am curious if it is worthwhile for me to use some factory pistons from a different 440. I know the 78' pistons are WAY down there in the hole.
Or list how far down in the hole they are! I have a 67' 440 and a 72 440. Im guessing the 72 and 78 are the same. The 67 I am guessing are about .085 in the hole, being it is 10to1 with 75cc heads.
Without looking anything up and going by memory, it is something like this
67 hp - CH 2.00", 0.080" to 0.090" in the hole
68-69 hp - CH 2.03", 0.050" to .060" in the hole
6 pac - CH 2.06", 0.020" to 0.030" in the hole.
I have measurements of this somewhere, if you want it more exact.
I know that a 2.03 replacement piston has not been around for a while, unless someone has started making them in the last few years.
The actual compression difference between the 2.03 and six pack 2.06 piston is not that much as the six pack piston has about 6cc of valve relief in it....again, from memory.
Building a pump gas 440 with quench using factory pistons and heads is difficult. No matter how you mix and match, either you have a decent CR, and the piston is 0.060 in the hole (closed chamber head), or you have a good quench, and the CR is 11:1.
 Nice info.
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: 440Jim]
#1076866
09/18/11 08:45 PM
09/18/11 08:45 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
|
TRW L3059 1.981" flat top no reliefs. I believe this was a cast piston.
Sealed Power 2286P 2.034" flat top no reliefs. This was the NHRA approved 68/69 piston.
To the op, without boring, it is a bit of a mess running a taller piston with the rings running higher in the bore over the ridge. Ridge reaming usually makes it worse IMO
Last edited by BSB67; 09/18/11 08:57 PM.
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: viperblue72]
#1076868
09/19/11 12:40 AM
09/19/11 12:40 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
Quote:
I am just gonna do a nice hone job to get rid of the ridge.
There isn't but maybe a few thousandths ridge. My plan is to put 800 bucks into this thing and run the crap out of it.
A few thousandths is alot, even the slightest ridge could be .007" & you cant just hone that out, Like mentioned, either run the factory pistons that came in there or bore it, by the time you get pistons & rods your looking at money spent, then you need to have the rods re-sized if there going to be on a different crank, your looking at more money, Its not that much for bore/hone, your looking at around 150.00, thats money well spent, your asking for trouble dropping in another set of pistons with the ridge, you will break a ring.
Another good investment is allign honeing the block for straightness especially if you use another crank, This game ain't cheap, If your wanting to run the piss out of it then your "best" bet is get a complete running 440 & drop it in, even if its a smogger, bolt-ons & a 125-150 shot will cure its weaknesses on the later 440s.
Last edited by joedust451; 09/19/11 12:45 AM.
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#1076870
09/19/11 01:06 AM
09/19/11 01:06 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
Quote:
...ORE - MORE LIKELY ... you could break a piston ring-land.. 
Yep, Now i did take the ridge off an old 400 SB chevy & re-ringed it, the ridge was a good .020"  , But i used all the original stuff, it turned out good & lasted along time, I ran it hard too, so if anything, use a ridge reamer & clean it up, If you use the pistons from an earlier engine, install the whole rotating assembly from the doner, crank/rods/pistons/balancer/flexplate, this way you avoid a balancing issue. Drop in fresh rings/bearings, but at least get the the block checked for allignment.
You did mention you have other 440s, are they early years? do you have any good core shortblocks you can re-ring?
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: viperblue72]
#1076873
09/19/11 04:11 PM
09/19/11 04:11 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
|
Quote:
This engine is one of the lowest mileage 440s I've ran across. I would rather run the low compression than bore it. I really don't understand what the big deal is. I've honed cylinders and re-ringed many times and used different pistons and never had problems. I guess I could get some 440source heads and that would up compression to about 8.5.
You could run the Steath heads, but with them being aluminum with the heat loss vs iron it'll act like its still low compression, but you'll have those heads to drop on future engines, But if you want to keep the cost down, If you have a decent set of iron heads just have them milled down & run a thin gasket.
IMO, your best bet is rent a ridge reamer & take the ridge out, then finish hone, then install the earlier complete rotating assembly from the doner, this will keep cost down.
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: viperblue72]
#1076874
09/19/11 04:26 PM
09/19/11 04:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,017
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,017
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
This engine is one of the lowest mileage 440s I've ran across. I would rather run the low compression than bore it. I really don't understand what the big deal is. I've honed cylinders and re-ringed many times and used different pistons and never had problems. I guess I could get some 440source heads and that would up compression to about 8.5.
You seem to already have your mind made up so just go for it .
|
|
|
Re: factory 440 compression heights
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#1076875
09/19/11 05:22 PM
09/19/11 05:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,734
Charlotte, NC
446acuda
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,734
Charlotte, NC
|
Quote:
STD bore 55's ?.... where ?
I have some OEM std bores that I am not going to use with 6p rods. And shipping is not all-that bad. .
Posted by RonP in Aug bb engine parts for sale std bore 2355
Going a different direction and need to move these. STD bore, no obvious issues. These were pressed onto a set of reconditioned 6-pack rods a few years ago and have been sitting.
pm me or call 910-382-8540 Ron
250.00 or decent offer plus shipping
|
|
|
|
|
