Anyone have any experience with thier retro hydraulic roller lifters? I may be looking for some replacements, and Summit has these at a decent price.

I have a set of their solid rollers and they are made by Johnson Hy-Lift. If the hydro's are made by Johnson Hy-Lift I wouldn't hesitate to buy them. J.Rob

I have a set. They look real nice. But I haven't put the motor together yet.

I seem to hear from a few builders that scorpion is a decent bramd.
I was convinced they were some junk off-name that I should avoid, but this is evidently not the case. A lot of people like their stuff.

Thanks for the replies, I may give these a try.

After researching on the net, I read to stay away from the COMP CAMS. So...I ordered a set of Scorpions. This morning I put them in and as I was adjusting valves 3 of them collapsed! Ordered some Crowers. We'll see.

Returning from Goodguys March Pleasanton meet this weekend, pulled in for fuel at station near home, engine running a bit rough, heard familiar clack, clack of another one of Scorpion's crap that had bitten it.

Engine is 512, Edie aluminum heads, six pack, CC extreme energy cam, bee hive 350 pounds, Challenger.

Called them, they don't sell lifters no more. Wonder why? Tech guy said that what they had sold were made by Johnson Hi Lift or some such. Also said there is new owner of Scorpion Company.

Called Isky regarding their new bronzed bushing red line roller. Found that only offered in solid lifter for Mopar, a close friend and fellow forum member recently acquired a set for his 496 BB that he is refurbishing. Tech at Isky switched me to Ron Iskenderian(son of Ed, who is now 96 years of age and still going strong) came on the phone. Had a good 1/2 hour to 45 minute fascinating conversation.

His opinion was that the only acceptable hydraulic roller lifter was manufacturered by Johnson SEC,,,,definitely not Johnson Hy Lift.

Has anyone any experience with lifters made by Johnson SEC. I have emailed company to find if they manufacturer a Mopar lifter,,,have not yet heard back. No telephone number listed, only sell thru agents. All I see on their website are references to Chevy.

Ron of course is a wealth of information and was a real gentleman as he answered many questions that I had often wondered about and many that had never occurred to me. An extremely interesting discussion.

I will be creating another thread asking recommendations what I should do to resolve my current dilemma of collapsing lifters and ideas as to why they are failing. After talking with Ron, I have a pretty good idea!

Morel/Crower I have looked at too, even read complaints here also. Supposedly Morel manufacturers Crower. Also have read of good experience with early Crane hydraulics.

:::::In error I had inadvertently said that Morel manufactures Crower. I meant to say that Johnson SEC makes them. This I was told by someone who should know but as with everything here, do not take this to the bank::::

Perhaps moving to solid roller should be considered. Car is street only, drag strip days are way behind me.

Mine were junk, Sticking plungers on 4 of them. Sent the bad ones in for replacement. Same issue with 2 replacements. Bought the Hughes ones. Not one problem. I wouldn't touch the Scorpions.

If you're running a hyd roller cam with "reasonable" spring pressures, I recommend the Howard's lifters, which are made by Morel.

I'd use those for open pressures up to about 375lbs.

If you're one of those people who runs solid roller spring pressures on their hyd roller cam, then you're likely not going to have much success with "budget friendly" hyd roller lifters.

My understanding is that the Scorpion hyd roller lifters were(at least at some point) made by Johnson lifters(not Hy-lift Johnson)........ Even the part numbers are the same.

Seems like once you step away from the entry level Morels(in an attempt to get lifters that will work satisfactorily with higher spring loads), the price basically doubles.

Just curious: Anyone know who makes the Hughes Hyd LA roller lifters? They are in the same use range, max 160 closed/380 open.

Hughes shows a couple different part numbers for SB lifters...... One of them being 5321.
Morel has a few different part numbers for SBM lifters..... One of them being 5321.

Coincidence?

Pulled left valve cover today. Number 3 intake lifter is collapsed. .206 inches gap valve to Harland Sharp rocker.

Summit has 16 Scorpion lifters, but will not break up the set. As noted earlier, Scorpion no longer markets lifters so no help here,,,,not that I would want any more product from them after my 2 collapsed lifter failures anyway. The next failure could be the one that be the one that wipes an engine.

Leaning toward replacing entire set with Crower,,,Summit says back ordered until tax day, April 15th. Neither Summit nor Crower have any idea on difference in pushrod length between Scorpion and Crower, and I can not determine until I get new lifters, additionally pushrods may need a custom build,,,another delay for how long I do not know.

Have too considered Morel roller lifter,,,,however read of complaints here too by members, justified or not, and poor customer tech support, justified or not.

Wonder if any vendor building their junk off shore to fatten their bottom line, care a wit about their customers who bear the brunt of delays and untold labor costs of their victim clients as they are either subjected to replace themselves or to pay to labor for someone to undo the defective component for which they had paid their hard earned money.

I am a small time do it yourself hobbyists, even at that I have bitten big time by at least 6 different very well known supplier/vendors this past couple of years. Their names appear often on this forum. Names of responsible firms upon request.

Have even considered converting to a solid roller but finding just as with flat tappet cams, it is highly recommended not to do so on a hydraulic cam. I had suspected this, but was uncertain. Not quite ready for the formidable labor and expense involved,,,,particularly if a more reputable hydraulic lifter manufacturer can be found and their product should resolve my immediate problem.

Interesting thought came to mind yesterday.. In well over 50 years dealing with and even racing some fairly fast cars,I have never experienced a collapsed hydraulic lifter nor even hear of them on regular old production Fords, Chevys and Mopars. Yet this forum is loaded with such incidents from members and their experiences with so called after market performance components.

I would appreciate comments or suggestions from those with far more experience than I have. Perhaps I am being too harsh,,,,that this just the nature of the beast and if you are going to play, you must learn to accept that is just the way it is.

Roger, just like we talked about on the phone the other day. After having suffered the consequences of the Mopar hydraulic roller lifter limits issue first hand, this is my understanding of the issue.

The hydraulic roller lifters push the available hydraulic lifter technology to and past their limit because of the stresses they undergo. The increased weight of the components and the valve spring pressures needed to control these heavier valve train components are right at the edge of the ability of the hydraulic lifter to survive without collapsing the plunger.

How this actually happens mechanically, I don't understand. Is it erosion of the plunger or internal lifter body similar to a faucet valve that begins to leak over time or some other mechanism of failure?

GM based motors have the latest advancements in the hydraulic lifter designs with very low plunger travel. They are nearly solid lifters with a very small cushion of oil to take up the last bit of valve train slack. Proper set-up and pre-load is essential. This technology is not available for Mopars at this time.

There are really no good choices for hydraulic roller lifters at this time, although some are better than others. Crane used to make a great set, but they were bought out, and now the replacements have a bad reputation.

I know this is against the trends of wanting to run "newer technology", but in most hot street/street strip BB Mopar builds, I still feel the solid flat tappet is a better alternative to the hyd roller.

Again, "if" you're putting a hyd roller combo together that will function properly with around 375lbs open pressure, then the std Howard's/Morel lifters should work fine.

If you're building a combo you want to turn some decent rpm(solidly over 6k), then IMO the "hyd" part of the lifter needs to go away........ Or you need to use the "fake" hyd lifters(limited travel), which are basically nothing more than a slightly cushioned solid.

If you're running a lobe profile you feel needs like 450-500lbs+ open pressure, I'd probably just run a slower, smoother solid roller profile instead, and run some premium solid roller lifters, which generally seem to be less of a headache than many hyd roller lifters in the BBM platform.

No one has brought up the "sticking" lifters thing, but the way I see it is...... The manufacturers are trying to run the plunger to body clearance as tight as possible, so keep the bleed down really low when running high spring pressures.
My guess is, that situation is going to have a very very low tolerance for foreign particles/debris getting into the lifter.
Basically, something had to cause the plunger to get stuck in the body.

It seems like a catch 22 for the lifter makers.
Too loose a clearance, they bleed down a lot and won't rev properly...... To tight and the plungers stick in the bodies.

As the original poster of this thread, I can report that I installed these lifters shortly after this thread and have run them every since with no issues. This car sees mostly drag strip use, but does have some street miles on it. They have been in two different blocks (after a cracked cylinder wall). Looks like I have been lucky!