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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: az426john]
#1072693
09/10/11 06:21 PM
09/10/11 06:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
A friend just told me that he was advised by a reputable auto parts store in Detroit to NOT use any additional Zinc additive when using Valvoline VR-1.
They told him that it would actually have detrimental effects and negate the zinc in the oil. Has anyone else heard of this and is it true?
There is a fine balance when blending the additives into a finished motor oil product at the manufacturing level. And it is a tight balance with any given oil having to be compromised in one direction or the other. The chemical engineers know where to find the right balance so no need for shade tree motor oil blending in the back yard.
Yes, you could throw off the pH balance of your oil so to speak and cause more harm than good.
The VR-1 has plenty of zinc and phos so no need for additional additives.
If you'd like to know more about what's going on inside your quart of motor oil, check out the article: What's In Your Motor Oil - link
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: az426john]
#1072697
09/11/11 07:26 AM
09/11/11 07:26 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,733
Florida
BDW
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,733
Florida
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Quote:
A friend just told me that he was advised by a reputable auto parts store in Detroit to NOT use any additional Zinc additive when using Valvoline VR-1.
They told him that it would actually have detrimental effects and negate the zinc in the oil. Has anyone else heard of this and is it true?
Sounds like a scare tactic to sell the $7-9/qt oil to me. So the zinc additives are good for break-in, but not afterwards? 
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: BDW]
#1072698
09/11/11 08:17 AM
09/11/11 08:17 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
Quote:
A friend just told me that he was advised by a reputable auto parts store in Detroit to NOT use any additional Zinc additive when using Valvoline VR-1.
They told him that it would actually have detrimental effects and negate the zinc in the oil. Has anyone else heard of this and is it true?
Sounds like a scare tactic to sell the $7-9/qt oil to me. So the zinc additives are good for break-in, but not afterwards?
It's not really a scare tactic. Even the auto manufactures advise to say no to engine oil additives, for example:
Quote:
"Your vehicle does not require any oil additives. Additives may adversely affect the engine or transmission performance and durability."
Many of the aftermarket motor oil zinc additives came about as a band-aid after zinc and phos levels were rolled back starting in 2004.
Today many companies are making specialized race/hot rod/break-in oils with the right amounts of zinc, phos and other anti-wear additives properly blended in to make a balanced finished product. So no longer is the need to knock off the balance of any motor oil with aftermarket motor oil additives.
I mean it's hard to fathom why anyone will spend thousands of dollars building a high performance engine, spend hours of their time planning each and every detail of the build and then scoff at a couple dollar difference in the purchase price of motor oil of which is usually only changed once or twice a year, perplexing!
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: CompSyn]
#1072699
09/11/11 11:46 PM
09/11/11 11:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,144
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,144
Benton, IL.
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We have several engines, some street, some strip that run the VR-1 and the Hughes additive. Been running this the last couple of years. No problems, at least not yet. I would like to hear a few more specifics on the acidity issue. Is this a long term problem or is it more immediate? Will it show up in an oil analysis? We have been hung out to dry on this ZDDP thing before and have lost cams to it. Now that I have a combo that has solved my cam issues and has not shown me any other problems, I would like a little more info before I abandon it. I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us. 
Master, again and still
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1072700
09/12/11 09:51 AM
09/12/11 09:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
We have several engines, some street, some strip that run the VR-1 and the Hughes additive. Been running this the last couple of years. No problems, at least not yet.
I would like to hear a few more specifics on the acidity issue. Is this a long term problem or is it more immediate? Will it show up in an oil analysis?
We have been hung out to dry on this ZDDP thing before and have lost cams to it. Now that I have a combo that has solved my cam issues and has not shown me any other problems, I would like a little more info before I abandon it.
I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.
Good questions Dave. I started a new moparts thread found at THIS LINK
Hope this helps.
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: CompSyn]
#1072701
09/12/11 12:43 PM
09/12/11 12:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
Junky
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
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I wish I could remember, but I think it's like above 2500 ppm zinc can create a problem. Been along time since I looked it up. So running something like Shell Rotella T 15/40 with a bottle of stp is safe.
Edit:
According to cnxt's post below, my memory was way off. It's much higher than 2500 ppm.
Last edited by Junky; 09/12/11 08:27 PM.
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: 383man]
#1072703
09/12/11 02:37 PM
09/12/11 02:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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ok, so the issue here is acidity? that's easy enough to test.
go buy some litmus paper and check the acidity of your oil. then check the acidity of your additive. then go one step further and mix them up, and test it again.
see what the PH levels are at all 3 stages.
then you'll know of your oil turned to acid by adding an oil treatment to it.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1072705
09/12/11 06:45 PM
09/12/11 06:45 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,733
Florida
BDW
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,733
Florida
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As a sales person would you rather? a)sell 5-6qts at +$10/qt b)sell additive that costs $5/oil change As an engineer, I know there are many ways to present data. 1/3 bottle of Lucas gets you where you need to be. 
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: BDW]
#1072706
09/12/11 07:32 PM
09/12/11 07:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
As a sales person would you rather?
a)sell 5-6qts at +$10/qt
b)sell additive that costs $5/oil change
As an engineer, I know there are many ways to present data.
1/3 bottle of Lucas gets you where you need to be.
So then is it safe to say Zinc content alone is the deciding factor driving what a Muscle Car owner pours in his/hers crankcase?
Or are there other deciding factors...
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: CompSyn]
#1072707
09/12/11 09:38 PM
09/12/11 09:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,144
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,144
Benton, IL.
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Quote:
Quote:
We have several engines, some street, some strip that run the VR-1 and the Hughes additive. Been running this the last couple of years. No problems, at least not yet.
I would like to hear a few more specifics on the acidity issue. Is this a long term problem or is it more immediate? Will it show up in an oil analysis?
We have been hung out to dry on this ZDDP thing before and have lost cams to it. Now that I have a combo that has solved my cam issues and has not shown me any other problems, I would like a little more info before I abandon it.
I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.
Good questions Dave. I started a new moparts thread found at THIS LINK
Hope this helps.
To be honest, it didn't answer my questions at all. If it did, and I missed it, how about posting the pertinent passages here.
I am open-minded on this and really want to know the bottom line BEFORE I grind down another cam. Or worse.
Master, again and still
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1072709
09/12/11 10:08 PM
09/12/11 10:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 671
Wisconsin USA
Bill MeLater
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 671
Wisconsin USA
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Quote:
We have several engines, some street, some strip that run the VR-1 and the Hughes additive. Been running this the last couple of years. No problems, at least not yet.
I would like to hear a few more specifics on the acidity issue. Is this a long term problem or is it more immediate? Will it show up in an oil analysis?
We have been hung out to dry on this ZDDP thing before and have lost cams to it. Now that I have a combo that has solved my cam issues and has not shown me any other problems, I would like a little more info before I abandon it.
I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.
I've been running the same mix for long enough to know it works for me. Keep running what you already know for a fact works. Or... start the whole experiment over from the beginning. Don't we have enough to worry about already?
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Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1072710
09/12/11 10:08 PM
09/12/11 10:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 183
Eden, Texas
Strawdawg
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 183
Eden, Texas
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the Total Base Number provided by an oil analysis will tell you how close the oil is to becoming acid.
Don't think acidity has anything to do with wiping cam lobes/lifters, but, it does have an affect upon corrosion and wear.
Steve
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