Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive

Posted By: az426john

Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/10/11 08:59 PM

A friend just told me that he was advised by a reputable auto parts store in Detroit to NOT use any additional Zinc additive when using Valvoline VR-1.

They told him that it would actually have detrimental effects and negate the zinc in the oil. Has anyone else heard of this and is it true?

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/10/11 10:21 PM

Quote:

A friend just told me that he was advised by a reputable auto parts store in Detroit to NOT use any additional Zinc additive when using Valvoline VR-1.

They told him that it would actually have detrimental effects and negate the zinc in the oil. Has anyone else heard of this and is it true?

There is a fine balance when blending the additives into a finished motor oil product at the manufacturing level. And it is a tight balance with any given oil having to be compromised in one direction or the other. The chemical engineers know where to find the right balance so no need for shade tree motor oil blending in the back yard.

Yes, you could throw off the pH balance of your oil so to speak and cause more harm than good.

The VR-1 has plenty of zinc and phos so no need for additional additives.

If you'd like to know more about what's going on inside your quart of motor oil, check out the article: What's In Your Motor Oil - link

Posted By: Sixgun

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/11/11 07:16 AM

Are we still OK adding STP red to our full synthetic to get the ZDDP up?

Posted By: 383man

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/11/11 08:35 AM

I use the Valvoline racing oil and I always add a bottle of the Comp zinc additive. Never have had any trouble and have never wiped a cam lobe. Ron

Posted By: greg_moreira

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/11/11 08:42 AM

As mentioned...the ph balance is an issue. Some additives with some oils actually "can" create an acidic condition. This can cause premature wear not just in the cam, but bearings and the whole lot.

Seek out an oil that has what you need, and dont add any extra after breakin!

I like the brad penn semi synthetic stuff. Plenty of ZDDP for a flat tappet after breakin(they sell a breakin oil also)

I also use mobil delvac super 1300 stuff also regularly( also plenty of ZDDP....its a heavier weight thought at 15 w 40)

Posted By: BDW

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/11/11 11:26 AM

Quote:

A friend just told me that he was advised by a reputable auto parts store in Detroit to NOT use any additional Zinc additive when using Valvoline VR-1.

They told him that it would actually have detrimental effects and negate the zinc in the oil. Has anyone else heard of this and is it true?

Sounds like a scare tactic to sell the $7-9/qt oil to me. So the zinc additives are good for break-in, but not afterwards?

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/11/11 12:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A friend just told me that he was advised by a reputable auto parts store in Detroit to NOT use any additional Zinc additive when using Valvoline VR-1.

They told him that it would actually have detrimental effects and negate the zinc in the oil. Has anyone else heard of this and is it true?

Sounds like a scare tactic to sell the $7-9/qt oil to me. So the zinc additives are good for break-in, but not afterwards?

It's not really a scare tactic. Even the auto manufactures advise to say no to engine oil additives, for example:

Quote:

"Your vehicle does not require any oil additives. Additives may adversely affect the engine or transmission performance and durability."

Many of the aftermarket motor oil zinc additives came about as a band-aid after zinc and phos levels were rolled back starting in 2004.

Today many companies are making specialized race/hot rod/break-in oils with the right amounts of zinc, phos and other anti-wear additives properly blended in to make a balanced finished product. So no longer is the need to knock off the balance of any motor oil with aftermarket motor oil additives.

I mean it's hard to fathom why anyone will spend thousands of dollars building a high performance engine, spend hours of their time planning each and every detail of the build and then scoff at a couple dollar difference in the purchase price of motor oil of which is usually only changed once or twice a year, perplexing!

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/12/11 03:46 AM

We have several engines, some street, some strip that run the VR-1 and the Hughes additive. Been running this the last couple of years. No problems, at least not yet.

I would like to hear a few more specifics on the acidity issue. Is this a long term problem or is it more immediate? Will it show up in an oil analysis?

We have been hung out to dry on this ZDDP thing before and have lost cams to it. Now that I have a combo that has solved my cam issues and has not shown me any other problems, I would like a little more info before I abandon it.

I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/12/11 01:51 PM

Quote:

We have several engines, some street, some strip that run the VR-1 and the Hughes additive. Been running this the last couple of years. No problems, at least not yet.

I would like to hear a few more specifics on the acidity issue. Is this a long term problem or is it more immediate? Will it show up in an oil analysis?

We have been hung out to dry on this ZDDP thing before and have lost cams to it. Now that I have a combo that has solved my cam issues and has not shown me any other problems, I would like a little more info before I abandon it.

I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.

Good questions Dave. I started a new moparts thread found at THIS LINK

Hope this helps.

Posted By: Junky

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/12/11 04:43 PM

I wish I could remember, but I think it's like above 2500 ppm zinc can create a problem. Been along time since I looked it up. So running something like Shell Rotella T 15/40 with a bottle of stp is safe.

Edit:
According to cnxt's post below, my memory was way off. It's much higher than 2500 ppm.

Posted By: 383man

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/12/11 05:37 PM

Actually a very good eng builder told me they always add a bottle of the additive with the Valvoline racing oil. Thats what I have been doing with no problems. Ron

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/12/11 06:37 PM

ok, so the issue here is acidity? that's easy enough to test.

go buy some litmus paper and check the acidity of your oil. then check the acidity of your additive. then go one step further and mix them up, and test it again.

see what the PH levels are at all 3 stages.

then you'll know of your oil turned to acid by adding an oil treatment to it.

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/12/11 06:38 PM

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009K8...24HBMBR8VWQXFR8

Posted By: BDW

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/12/11 10:45 PM

As a sales person would you rather?

a)sell 5-6qts at +$10/qt
b)sell additive that costs $5/oil change

As an engineer, I know there are many ways to present data.

1/3 bottle of Lucas gets you where you need to be.

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/12/11 11:32 PM

Quote:

As a sales person would you rather?

a)sell 5-6qts at +$10/qt
b)sell additive that costs $5/oil change

As an engineer, I know there are many ways to present data.

1/3 bottle of Lucas gets you where you need to be.

So then is it safe to say Zinc content alone is the deciding factor driving what a Muscle Car owner pours in his/hers crankcase?

Or are there other deciding factors...

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/13/11 01:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

We have several engines, some street, some strip that run the VR-1 and the Hughes additive. Been running this the last couple of years. No problems, at least not yet.

I would like to hear a few more specifics on the acidity issue. Is this a long term problem or is it more immediate? Will it show up in an oil analysis?

We have been hung out to dry on this ZDDP thing before and have lost cams to it. Now that I have a combo that has solved my cam issues and has not shown me any other problems, I would like a little more info before I abandon it.

I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.

Good questions Dave. I started a new moparts thread found at THIS LINK

Hope this helps.

To be honest, it didn't answer my questions at all. If it did, and I missed it, how about posting the pertinent passages here.

I am open-minded on this and really want to know the bottom line BEFORE I grind down another cam. Or worse.

Posted By: KY Charger

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/13/11 01:47 AM

Don't know about he VR-1, but i'm gonna be running the AMSoil Zrod oil in my Charger.

Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/13/11 02:08 AM

Quote:

We have several engines, some street, some strip that run the VR-1 and the Hughes additive. Been running this the last couple of years. No problems, at least not yet.

I would like to hear a few more specifics on the acidity issue. Is this a long term problem or is it more immediate? Will it show up in an oil analysis?

We have been hung out to dry on this ZDDP thing before and have lost cams to it. Now that I have a combo that has solved my cam issues and has not shown me any other problems, I would like a little more info before I abandon it.

I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.

I've been running the same mix for long enough to know it works for me. Keep running what you already know for a fact works. Or... start the whole experiment over from the beginning. Don't we have enough to worry about already?

Posted By: Strawdawg

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/13/11 02:08 AM

the Total Base Number provided by an oil analysis will tell you how close the oil is to becoming acid.

Don't think acidity has anything to do with wiping cam lobes/lifters, but, it does have an affect upon corrosion and wear.

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/13/11 02:42 AM

I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.

You can send an oil sample to the oil company for testing usually at no charge?

Posted By: Strawdawg

Re: Valvoline VR-1 and additional Zinc additive - 09/13/11 03:22 AM

Quote:

I guess my question is this; Is there any way for me to determine IF I have an acidity issue? Because if I don't have an acidity issue I don't think I would like to tinker with a combo that is otherwise working for us.

You can send an oil sample to the oil company for testing usually at no charge?

yes, take an oil sample and have an analysis run...the TBN will tell you if the oil is nearing acidity.

Unless you are running a lot of miles between changes, I would guess it is unlikely that you would have a problem if if the excess zddp clashes with the base additive package...

Race engines and street engines are two different animals