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how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? #1071946 09/09/11 12:02 PM 09/09/11 12:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 354 K kielbasa OP enthusiast
kielbasa OP enthusiast K Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 354	Hi guys, still debating over induction on my small block stroker.... car is an AAR, so it'll be nice to retain some type of 6 barrel induction (although not necessary, i don't drive with my hood open), and i was (still am) considering efi six pack. in the interest of minimizing the vacuum in my wallet, i'm contemplating just running the standard carbed intake that i already have, but am wondering how much power i would be sacrificing. Thanks for any input! p.s. engine is fairly mild (450~500ish hp)

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: kielbasa] #1071947 09/09/11 12:39 PM 09/09/11 12:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida P Performance Only top fuel
Performance Only top fuel P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida	on a mild build, i think the better question would be how much gain, if done right. if your goal is what you stated, the six pack will easily get you there. machine shop owner and engine builder

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: kielbasa] #1071948 09/09/11 01:01 PM 09/09/11 01:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA	I have a freind who ran a 1970 Chalenger T/A in NHRA stock, he made the power you want easily with the six pak He set the NHRA C/SA record with it several years ago. NHRA factored his car so he hasn't race it lately If you put a 440 center carb on it it will make more power, not a bunch more but more Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1071949 09/09/11 01:45 PM 09/09/11 01:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa S scatpacktom master
scatpacktom master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa	Power loss over what?

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: scatpacktom] #1071950 09/09/11 02:07 PM 09/09/11 02:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 354 K kielbasa OP enthusiast
kielbasa OP enthusiast K Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 354	Quote: Power loss over what? i should have specified... a modern 4 barrel

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: kielbasa] #1071951 09/09/11 02:33 PM 09/09/11 02:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 948 Alliance, Ohio V Valiant_Showoff super stock
Valiant_Showoff super stock V Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 948 Alliance, Ohio	If set up right? NONE

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Valiant_Showoff] #1071952 09/09/11 04:01 PM 09/09/11 04:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa S scatpacktom master
scatpacktom master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa	Even if it was 15 or 20 would you worry about it?

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: scatpacktom] #1071953 09/09/11 04:18 PM 09/09/11 04:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	I know when Mopar Muscle did a dyno shootout on intakes for the bigblock the 6pk made almost as much as any of the modern single four intakes. It surprised me how good the 6pk did. Ron

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: kielbasa] #1071954 09/10/11 03:22 PM 09/10/11 03:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 413 northeast ohio M mkdart mopar
mkdart mopar M Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 413 northeast ohio	The Oct/08 car craft did a story on the MP 410 6 pack crate motor. Might be of interest to you, 469hp/490tq.

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: kielbasa] #1071955 09/10/11 07:00 PM 09/10/11 07:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,206 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,206 New York	Using Vizard's rule ("find the restriction"), as power goes up the limited plenum volume of a 3�2 becomes a problem. At 400 it doesn't matter, at 700 it's fatal. In between...?? More cam, and especially overlap, is also tough because it upsets all the original careful jetting and leaves you playing with your drill set and cursing. Boffin Emeritus

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: 383man] #1071956 09/10/11 11:04 PM 09/10/11 11:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	my 440-6 seems to run plenty strong...even w/o aftermarket metering plates and junk... No reason a 6-pack can't run w/ a 4bbl. As a matter of fact it will pick you up more ponies unless it's an all out race car. [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: polyspheric] #1071957 09/10/11 11:09 PM 09/10/11 11:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	The oem modified intake works well, even with modified carbs but on more or less cookie cutter small block stroker with heads in the 285-295 real world area mine would start to go flat at 6700 or so. I now have the indy mod man with the big plenum under what amounts to a 1.5 spacer above the plenum and with some adjustments its the one thing the motor really needed, happy at 7k but seems to go alot further if needed. If you have a stick or a mild vert/gears the mod man is somthing to consider. Opinions will vary on six packs in as many ways as any mopar topic, its just a different but fun fuel delivery system.

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: quick77rt ] #1071958 09/11/11 10:41 AM 09/11/11 10:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 2,495 Richmond , Virginia BEEQUIK top fuel
BEEQUIK top fuel Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 2,495 Richmond , Virginia	OK- i know you said smallblock but I think this may help.I had a 69 Superbee and was running a stock style 6-pack. Car was running 12.60's at the time and I had an M-1 single plane intake and a new Holley 750 vac. secondaries carb.Went to the track and made 2 passes with the sixpack.12.60 and 12.61. Switched the intake and carb to the 4 barrell and went 12.61 and 12.61. So in my application I saw no difference. When I installed the new engine it ran a best of 11.60 with the sixpack and didnt put a four barrell on that combo. 6820828-DSC00918.JPG (193 downloads)

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: kielbasa] #1071959 09/11/11 05:40 PM 09/11/11 05:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,467 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad top fuel
ThermoQuad top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,467 Answering the call of the wild	No losses, just gains. Stop thinking so hard. Six packs rule

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: kielbasa] #1071960 09/11/11 08:06 PM 09/11/11 08:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Quote: Power loss over what? i should have specified... a modern 4 barrel I dnyo tested my low deck sixpak motor(518 C.I. Pump Gas) with the sixpak and then 30 minutes later a Team G intake and 1050 Dominator, I actually tested three different Holley 1050 Dominators and I had to add a Wilson Manifold 2 inch reversion spacer to get the single, modern, four barrel carb. power close to that old design sixpak on that motor The best dominator on the Wilson reversion spacer made 708 HP and 750 Ft. Lbs and the sixpak made 718 HP and 750 Ft Lbs, same dyno, same day More air with the proper mixture of fuel made more power Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1071961 09/11/11 08:58 PM 09/11/11 08:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,916 usa L lewtot184 master
lewtot184 master L Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,916 usa	this may not be an apples to apples comparison but i took the 6-pak off my 69 r/t this weekend and put the stock 4bbl intake and carb on. the engine is basically stock and i've had a 6-pak on it for over 20yrs. anyhow, talk about a power loss! on another note here, i used to build a 440 bracket motor for this guy and it started out with a 6-pak. anyhow, all his know it all pals told him he needed a team-g intake and dominator carb. about $1000 later the car didn't run any quicker when it had with the 6-pak on it. multi carb or no carb .

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: BEEQUIK] #1071962 09/12/11 01:19 AM 09/12/11 01:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,153 Adrian, Mi P pro6pakRR mopar addict
pro6pakRR mopar addict P Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,153 Adrian, Mi	Quote: OK- i know you said smallblock but I think this may help.I had a 69 Superbee and was running a stock style 6-pack. Car was running 12.60's at the time and I had an M-1 single plane intake and a new Holley 750 vac. secondaries carb.Went to the track and made 2 passes with the sixpack.12.60 and 12.61. Switched the intake and carb to the 4 barrell and went 12.61 and 12.61. So in my application I saw no difference. When I installed the new engine it ran a best of 11.60 with the sixpack and didnt put a four barrell on that combo. Mine was the same went 11.53@117 with 6 pack and 11.58@116 with M1 and 850 Holly.Same day about 15 min.between passes.Just took one intake and carb off put other on.

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: pro6pakRR] #1071963 09/12/11 05:11 PM 09/12/11 05:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast B BobR master
BobR master B Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast	My dialed in 416/six pack was 499. My 416 with an airgap from the dyno room/950 Holley was 536. Manifold is a restriction on bigger power. 440 six packs were better. That all said, I still have the 6 pack on the car.

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: BobR] #1071964 09/12/11 05:55 PM 09/12/11 05:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA	Keibasa, I had to jet my outboard carbs way up to get it to make more power than the 1050 Dominator did, 66 or 67 jets in the center and .092 or .094 on the dirver sides and .096 or .098 on the passenger side outboard carbs depending on the track elevation and current weather Most stock jetting on the factory sixpaks sucked wind big time Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1071965 09/12/11 07:24 PM 09/12/11 07:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	Anyone care to take a stab at a better real world discription of having the large plenum down low as on the mod man, possibly the pros/cons as really Indy-s explaination is semi vague and maybe if more understood them they would sell more. I will say one last time, mine with a 1.5 spacer above the plenum seems to be as good down low and way better up high, but I will only have chassis dyno numbers to compare, no dyno or track specs, but its very easy to tell the diff between an oem dual and a performance single plane.

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1071966 09/12/11 07:43 PM 09/12/11 07:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Quote: Keibasa, I had to jet my outboard carbs way up to get it to make more power than the 1050 Dominator did, 66 or 67 jets in the center and .092 or .094 on the dirver sides and .096 or .098 on the passenger side outboard carbs depending on the track elevation and current weather Most stock jetting on the factory sixpaks sucked wind big time I run 70's and 35 squirters, stock metering plates, stock intake. I do have 1/2" spacers under all 3 because the water/meth fogs under the center. I think the factory jets were 64? Plenty for a stockish 440. Have a few friends run high 11's (in a b-body) with nothing more than good compression decent heads (iron), 509 cam and a six pack.

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1071967 09/12/11 11:17 PM 09/12/11 11:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY A Ari440 master
Ari440 master A Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY	weiad sixpack over a 1050 M1 on my roadrunner 1.39 9.85 - 137 mph

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Ari440] #1071968 09/12/11 11:33 PM 09/12/11 11:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY A Ari440 master
Ari440 master A Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY	I like this one 1.39 9.85 - 137 mph

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Ari440] #1071969 09/12/11 11:43 PM 09/12/11 11:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA	Quote: weiad sixpack over a 1050 M1 on my roadrunner Ari, hows that set up working for you? Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1071970 09/13/11 12:08 AM 09/13/11 12:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY A Ari440 master
Ari440 master A Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY	Quote: Quote: weiad sixpack over a 1050 M1 on my roadrunner Ari, hows that set up working for you? very nice , runs strong too its a 446 ci 12.5 comp 557 mopar cam and ported stage four heads working on a indy tunnelram with three two barrel 500 cfm carbs , making my own setup to work with my indy sr heads on the same short block 1.39 9.85 - 137 mph

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1071971 09/13/11 01:33 PM 09/13/11 01:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Ari, what kinds of times are you running w/ that set-up?

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: scatpacktom] #1071972 09/13/11 08:33 PM 09/13/11 08:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright 340SIX Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
340SIX Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright	Quote: Even if it was 15 or 20 would you worry about it? that was my thought as well when i did mine. Build was/is a 340 block 4.100, eagle H beams, Diamond forged stroker pistons {custom} with a real ratio of 10.88 with the CC of the heads. Was shooting for under 11 so I could run pump gas. File fit rings Eddie closed chamber aluim heads pro ported. Also six pack intake mild ported Engle Solid cam 244/252 @ 50 with 560/570 lift Ground on 110 center Comp cams roller rockers So Mild build should be ok with mild moderate port work Forged 4" crank http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/Eddie%20Heads/intake2.jpg http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/Eddie%20Heads/nos3_17873760.jpg

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: 340SIX] #1071973 09/13/11 09:20 PM 09/13/11 09:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 37 San Diego CA B Bruce K Bridges member
Bruce K Bridges member B Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 37 San Diego CA	No losses that weve seen... Dry. the B/RB and the LA manifolds are very nice designs. The LA from Mopar Perf needs a few+ hours of diegrinder work for basic performance (carbs) due to lots of core shift and flash. The Edelbrocks not so much. You can open up the plenum about 25% if your running it dry, but Id leave it alone with carbs to maximize velocity to combat fuel distribution issues. Well tuned carbs work great but its a lot easier to tune the computer, or better yet, let it tune itself! Weve seen mid 600hp RB and LA stroked motors using the dry 6bbl intake. Wed like to see how much more the intake can support modified for EFI... BKB 6825173-daveyoung1sm.jpg (155 downloads) I sell fuel injection, but Ill still rebuild your carb if I have to...

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1071974 09/13/11 11:10 PM 09/13/11 11:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY A Ari440 master
Ari440 master A Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY	Quote: Ari, what kinds of times are you running w/ that set-up? JEFF the road runner is a street car and have not went to the track with it yet I had a 750 and 850 on a M1 manafold and a modifeid victor that I mounted a 1050 on the sixpack makes more power and it drives nice around with the 1050 the motor would ping and rough part throttle the sixpack is also more economical to drive around 1.39 9.85 - 137 mph

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Ari440] #1071975 09/14/11 12:03 AM 09/14/11 12:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,464 Sydney,Australia tex013 top fuel
tex013 top fuel Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,464 Sydney,Australia	thanks for the real world feedback Ari.i've always wondered how the weiand would work,fuel distribution/puddling on the street Tex New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: tex013] #1071976 09/14/11 12:23 AM 09/14/11 12:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY A Ari440 master
Ari440 master A Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,618 long island NY	Quote: thanks for the real world feedback Ari.i've always wondered how the weiand would work,fuel distribution/puddling on the street Tex this manifold has the popsicla (sp)sticks and a divider in the middle I dont have any issus with it just the air grabber scoop is 4 inches tall now to fit under the hood scoop 1.39 9.85 - 137 mph

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: Ari440] #1071977 09/14/11 01:39 AM 09/14/11 01:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,464 Sydney,Australia tex013 top fuel
tex013 top fuel Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,464 Sydney,Australia	thanks Ari. if i ever get lucky enough to use one i may ask for a internal pic Tex New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? [Re: tex013] #1071978 09/14/11 09:19 AM 09/14/11 09:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Thanks for the info. I like my 6-pack. I think I'll keep it for a while.

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