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how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)?

Posted By: kielbasa

how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/09/11 04:02 PM

Hi guys, still debating over induction on my small block stroker....
car is an AAR, so it'll be nice to retain some type of 6 barrel induction (although not necessary, i don't drive with my hood open), and i was (still am) considering efi six pack.
in the interest of minimizing the vacuum in my wallet, i'm contemplating just running the standard carbed intake that i already have, but am wondering how much power i would be sacrificing.
Thanks for any input!
p.s. engine is fairly mild (450~500ish hp)
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/09/11 04:39 PM

on a mild build, i think the better question would be how much gain, if done right. if your goal is what you stated, the six pack will easily get you there.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/09/11 05:01 PM

I have a freind who ran a 1970 Chalenger T/A in NHRA stock, he made the power you want easily with the six pak He set the NHRA C/SA record with it several years ago. NHRA factored his car so he hasn't race it lately If you put a 440 center carb on it it will make more power, not a bunch more but more
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/09/11 05:45 PM

Power loss over what?
Posted By: kielbasa

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/09/11 06:07 PM

Quote:

Power loss over what?



i should have specified...
a modern 4 barrel
Posted By: Valiant_Showoff

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/09/11 06:33 PM

If set up right? NONE
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/09/11 08:01 PM

Even if it was 15 or 20 would you worry about it?
Posted By: 383man

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/09/11 08:18 PM

I know when Mopar Muscle did a dyno shootout on intakes for the bigblock the 6pk made almost as much as any of the modern single four intakes. It surprised me how good the 6pk did. Ron
Posted By: mkdart

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/10/11 07:22 PM

The Oct/08 car craft did a story on the MP 410 6 pack crate motor. Might
be of interest to you, 469hp/490tq.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/10/11 11:00 PM

Using Vizard's rule ("find the restriction"), as power goes up the limited plenum volume of a 3×2 becomes a problem. At 400 it doesn't matter, at 700 it's fatal. In between...??
More cam, and especially overlap, is also tough because it upsets all the original careful jetting and leaves you playing with your drill set and cursing.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/11/11 03:04 AM

my 440-6 seems to run plenty strong...even w/o aftermarket metering plates and junk... No reason a 6-pack can't run w/ a 4bbl. As a matter of fact it will pick you up more ponies unless it's an all out race car.
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/11/11 03:09 AM

The oem modified intake works well, even with modified carbs but on more or less cookie cutter small block stroker with heads in the 285-295 real world area mine would start to go flat at 6700 or so.

I now have the indy mod man with the big plenum under what amounts to a 1.5 spacer above the plenum and with some adjustments its the one thing the motor really needed, happy at 7k but seems to go alot further if needed.

If you have a stick or a mild vert/gears the mod man is somthing to consider.

Opinions will vary on six packs in as many ways as any mopar topic, its just a different but fun fuel delivery system.
Posted By: BEEQUIK

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/11/11 02:41 PM

OK- i know you said smallblock but I think this may help.I had a 69 Superbee and was running a stock style 6-pack. Car was running 12.60's at the time and I had an M-1 single plane intake and a new Holley 750 vac. secondaries carb.Went to the track and made 2 passes with the sixpack.12.60 and 12.61. Switched the intake and carb to the 4 barrell and went 12.61 and 12.61. So in my application I saw no difference. When I installed the new engine it ran a best of 11.60 with the sixpack and didnt put a four barrell on that combo.

Attached picture 6820828-DSC00918.JPG
Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/11/11 09:40 PM

No losses, just gains. Stop thinking so hard.

Six packs rule
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/12/11 12:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Power loss over what?



i should have specified...
a modern 4 barrel

I dnyo tested my low deck sixpak motor(518 C.I. Pump Gas) with the sixpak and then 30 minutes later a Team G intake and 1050 Dominator, I actually tested three different Holley 1050 Dominators and I had to add a Wilson Manifold 2 inch reversion spacer to get the single, modern, four barrel carb. power close to that old design sixpak on that motor The best dominator on the Wilson reversion spacer made 708 HP and 750 Ft. Lbs and the sixpak made 718 HP and 750 Ft Lbs, same dyno, same day More air with the proper mixture of fuel made more power
Posted By: lewtot184

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/12/11 12:58 AM

this may not be an apples to apples comparison but i took the 6-pak off my 69 r/t this weekend and put the stock 4bbl intake and carb on. the engine is basically stock and i've had a 6-pak on it for over 20yrs. anyhow, talk about a power loss! on another note here, i used to build a 440 bracket motor for this guy and it started out with a 6-pak. anyhow, all his know it all pals told him he needed a team-g intake and dominator carb. about $1000 later the car didn't run any quicker when it had with the 6-pak on it. multi carb or no carb .
Posted By: pro6pakRR

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/12/11 05:19 AM

Quote:

OK- i know you said smallblock but I think this may help.I had a 69 Superbee and was running a stock style 6-pack. Car was running 12.60's at the time and I had an M-1 single plane intake and a new Holley 750 vac. secondaries carb.Went to the track and made 2 passes with the sixpack.12.60 and 12.61. Switched the intake and carb to the 4 barrell and went 12.61 and 12.61. So in my application I saw no difference. When I installed the new engine it ran a best of 11.60 with the sixpack and didnt put a four barrell on that combo.



Mine was the same went 11.53@117 with 6 pack and 11.58@116 with M1 and 850 Holly.Same day about 15 min.between passes.Just took one intake and carb off put other on.
Posted By: BobR

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/12/11 09:11 PM

My dialed in 416/six pack was 499. My 416 with an airgap from the dyno room/950 Holley was 536. Manifold is a restriction on bigger power. 440 six packs were better. That all said, I still have the 6 pack on the car.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/12/11 09:55 PM

Keibasa, I had to jet my outboard carbs way up to get it to make more power than the 1050 Dominator did, 66 or 67 jets in the center and .092 or .094 on the dirver sides and .096 or .098 on the passenger side outboard carbs depending on the track elevation and current weather Most stock jetting on the factory sixpaks sucked wind big time
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/12/11 11:24 PM

Anyone care to take a stab at a better real world discription of having the large plenum down low as on the mod man, possibly the pros/cons as really Indy-s explaination is semi vague and maybe if more understood them they would sell more.

I will say one last time, mine with a 1.5 spacer above the plenum seems to be as good down low and way better up high, but I will only have chassis dyno numbers to compare, no dyno or track specs, but its very easy to tell the diff between an oem dual and a performance single plane.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/12/11 11:43 PM

Quote:

Keibasa, I had to jet my outboard carbs way up to get it to make more power than the 1050 Dominator did, 66 or 67 jets in the center and .092 or .094 on the dirver sides and .096 or .098 on the passenger side outboard carbs depending on the track elevation and current weather Most stock jetting on the factory sixpaks sucked wind big time



I run 70's and 35 squirters, stock metering plates, stock intake. I do have 1/2" spacers under all 3 because the water/meth fogs under the center. I think the factory jets were 64? Plenty for a stockish 440. Have a few friends run high 11's (in a b-body) with nothing more than good compression decent heads (iron), 509 cam and a six pack.
Posted By: Ari440

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/13/11 03:17 AM

weiad sixpack over a 1050 M1 on my roadrunner



Posted By: Ari440

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/13/11 03:33 AM

I like this one

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/13/11 03:43 AM

Quote:

weiad sixpack over a 1050 M1 on my roadrunner





Ari, hows that set up working for you?
Posted By: Ari440

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/13/11 04:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

weiad sixpack over a 1050 M1 on my roadrunner





Ari, hows that set up working for you?



very nice , runs strong too its a 446 ci 12.5 comp 557 mopar cam and ported stage four heads


working on a indy tunnelram with three two barrel 500 cfm carbs , making my own setup to work with my indy sr heads on the same short block
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/13/11 05:33 PM

Ari, what kinds of times are you running w/ that set-up?
Posted By: 340SIX

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/14/11 12:33 AM

Quote:

Even if it was 15 or 20 would you worry about it?


that was my thought as well when i did mine.
Build was/is a 340 block 4.100, eagle H beams, Diamond forged stroker pistons {custom} with a real ratio of 10.88 with the CC of the heads. Was shooting for under 11 so I could run pump gas. File fit rings
Eddie closed chamber aluim heads pro ported. Also six pack intake mild ported
Engle Solid cam 244/252 @ 50 with 560/570 lift Ground on 110 center
Comp cams roller rockers
So Mild build should be ok with mild moderate port work
Forged 4" crank



http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/Eddie%20Heads/intake2.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/Eddie%20Heads/nos3_17873760.jpg
Posted By: Bruce K Bridges

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/14/11 01:20 AM

No losses that weve seen... Dry. the B/RB and the LA manifolds are very nice designs. The LA from Mopar Perf needs a few+ hours of diegrinder work for basic performance (carbs) due to lots of core shift and flash. The Edelbrocks not so much. You can open up the plenum about 25% if your running it dry, but Id leave it alone with carbs to maximize velocity to combat fuel distribution issues. Well tuned carbs work great but its a lot easier to tune the computer, or better yet, let it tune itself! Weve seen mid 600hp RB and LA stroked motors using the dry 6bbl intake. Wed like to see how much more the intake can support modified for EFI...
BKB

Attached picture 6825173-daveyoung1sm.jpg
Posted By: Ari440

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/14/11 03:10 AM

Quote:

Ari, what kinds of times are you running w/ that set-up?




JEFF the road runner is a street car and have not went to the track with it yet

I had a 750 and 850 on a M1 manafold and a modifeid victor that I mounted a 1050 on

the sixpack makes more power and it drives nice around

with the 1050 the motor would ping and rough part throttle

the sixpack is also more economical to drive around
Posted By: tex013

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/14/11 04:03 AM

thanks for the real world feedback Ari.i've always wondered how the weiand would work,fuel distribution/puddling on the street

Tex
Posted By: Ari440

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/14/11 04:23 AM

Quote:

thanks for the real world feedback Ari.i've always wondered how the weiand would work,fuel distribution/puddling on the street

Tex





this manifold has the popsicla (sp)sticks and a divider in the middle

I dont have any issus with it

just the air grabber scoop is 4 inches tall now to fit under the hood scoop
Posted By: tex013

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/14/11 05:39 AM

thanks Ari.

if i ever get lucky enough to use one i may ask for a internal pic

Tex
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: how much loss with six pack (small block stroker)? - 09/14/11 01:19 PM

Thanks for the info. I like my 6-pack. I think I'll keep it for a while.
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