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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: fishy340]
#1070001
09/07/11 09:50 AM
09/07/11 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,933
Finalnd, Perkele
jyrki
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,933
Finalnd, Perkele
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Quote:
i remember muscle motors had a BIG ci 600+ inches made well over 900hp and tq was crazy for like 18g's PUMP GASSER...dont know if anyone bought one,but from reading about it,it sounded nasty.
We have one coming together during the winter. It's not exactly their crate, the camshaft and CR are slightly bigger because of our 93 octane pump gas, and the heads are ported. It will be dynoed locally onve ready, I would be highly surprised to see it make 900 hp despite of the advertising. But if it does, I sure will be happy!
Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: Chad Bittle]
#1070002
09/07/11 04:32 PM
09/07/11 04:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
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I think a Koleno low deck block at about 540" would fit the bill nicely at your race weight. To much torque might be a bad thing. All you would need is enough cyl head to support about 1.6 hp/ci. Easily done with a B1 original or even an Indy 440-1 head. Do yourself a favor and go to a terminator on alky and your car will be deadly with the glide. With your command of the tree, I will follow you around with the wheelbarrow to help haul the cash. 
I don't think alcohol would be good for lonnie....car will never be warm in time since he's usually running back from either sportsman, pro, no box, big wheel class, foot race event or tryin to remember where he put his dads tools. 
Oh and Lonnie, we knew this day was coming, haha. Good luck with your new build. 
Just add their "primer plus" system and warm up is no problem and he can save some nickles on gas while idling thru the pits.
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: AndyF]
#1070003
09/07/11 08:02 PM
09/07/11 08:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 621
Iowa
coronetville
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 621
Iowa
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: wheelsup68dart]
#1070004
09/08/11 12:15 AM
09/08/11 12:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Looking to step up to the 8.50's in 1/4 next season, not gonna do it with the small block. I believe 850 flywheel HP will get me there at 2650 lbs. Starting from scratch, how would you get there? Car will be BB, RB, with power glide and Dana 60 4.88 gear.
Does it weigh 2650# with the small block? If it does, you will be @ 2800# with the BB..
Wallace says 900 hp in perfect conditions, and drag coefficient.. 
IMO.. You are going to need close to 1000hp to do this. B1 MC's all the way and the biggest you can build....
If 8.50's were that easy in a Mopar.. A lot more guys would be doing it. Plus.... In bad conditions you'll need the extra hp.
Al Alguire's Barracuda just gets that 8.50 mark in 3500'- 4000' DA 2800 lbs. and his B1 MC (really actually) makes over 1000 hp.
Doesn't Fred's 588" barely run 8.50's with 2 Dominators.. 
You could always put a Rat Motor in it and go plenty fast... 
I'm just saying.. It's not that simple..
You wanted something to think about..
Chris.. 
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: HEMIFRED]
#1070006
09/08/11 03:11 AM
09/08/11 03:11 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Doesn't Fred's 588" barely run 8.50's with 2 Dominators..
It's an example of a build done for a variety of reasons besides power. The long list starts with longevity,reliability and low maintainance.
We can gain close to 40 HP with a better intake than the present5 cast.We need more plenum. It's running the same exact cam transplanted from one to another in my last three motors. A Crane R-396 ground in 1971 much smaller than it can take with only .730 lift. Probably could make 80 HP overall with a few changes.
Not disrespecting your combo Fred.. 
I'm merely pointing out that you can't just throw parts together and go 8.50's in a full bodied door car NA.. 
Like I said.. 8.50's is fast NA, and if it was easy, there would be a lot more guys doing it..
And it will take more than 850 HP to do it.. Quite a bit more.. 
Chris..
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: bwdst6]
#1070009
09/08/11 08:10 AM
09/08/11 08:10 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
If 8.50's were that easy in a Mopar.. A lot more guys would be doing it.
More people don’t do it because they don’t have the money!
 8.50's in a door car and economical don't belong in the same sentence (especially Mopar powered)
Rickster
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1070011
09/08/11 12:17 PM
09/08/11 12:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,628
Columbus, Ohio
wheelsup68dart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,628
Columbus, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Looking to step up to the 8.50's in 1/4 next season, not gonna do it with the small block. I believe 850 flywheel HP will get me there at 2650 lbs. Starting from scratch, how would you get there? Car will be BB, RB, with power glide and Dana 60 4.88 gear.
Does it weigh 2650# with the small block? If it does, you will be @ 2800# with the BB..
Wallace says 900 hp in perfect conditions, and drag coefficient..
IMO.. You are going to need close to 1000hp to do this. B1 MC's all the way and the biggest you can build....
If 8.50's were that easy in a Mopar.. A lot more guys would be doing it. Plus.... In bad conditions you'll need the extra hp.
Al Alguire's Barracuda just gets that 8.50 mark in 3500'- 4000' DA 2800 lbs. and his B1 MC (really actually) makes over 1000 hp.
Doesn't Fred's 588" barely run 8.50's with 2 Dominators..
You could always put a Rat Motor in it and go plenty fast...
I'm just saying.. It's not that simple..
You wanted something to think about..
Chris..
That would be Perfect, cause then I do not need ballast for super street, the 8.50 was a guideline for ET, but I would be plenty satisfied with anything between 8.50-9.00 and somewhere in the 5.65-5.75 1/8th mile. I think the aluminum block may be needed to not make weight go to high.
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: wheelsup68dart]
#1070013
09/08/11 12:39 PM
09/08/11 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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The aluminum block makes sense because you will have a similar weight distribution, may even need to add ballast to the front as opposed to trying to make a nose heavy car work.
Your last post said you are OK with an ET in the 8.998 to 8.50 range. That opens the door some! The heads you could use would be a well ported set of 440-1s,3x intake, 540 cubes 4.500 bore 4.25 stroke,terminator on methanol, Jesel rockers with 1.70 ratio, cam 283/288/110 in at 108 .775 to .800 intake lift, 15/1 compression with very small dome(i cut my heads to 62cc) 2 1/8 x 32 x 4 headers. Use a vacuum pump and .043 rings low ten oil, a good pan and this motor will take you to 8.80s on the bad days. I run 8.89 at 150 mph with a DA of 2200 ft at 3020 lbs with the same combo except 528 cubes using a 4.15 stroke. Run a 4.10 gear or 4.30 at the most, you won't need anything higher. A 4.10 will allow you to run a 14 x32 light weight Goodyear supergas tire, which should make the car faster. I am running a 40 lb 15.1 x 33.6 tire and it slows the car some.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: 440Jim]
#1070014
09/08/11 01:05 PM
09/08/11 01:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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Quote:
Give that aluminum BB consideration. Like I said about chassis balance. And remember the aftermarket cast iron blocks are heavier than the factory cast iron, so it can add a lot of weight, hence aluminum block.
I don't have exact numbers, but a new cast block is around 300 pounds $2900-$3900 (MP-Koleno) and the aluminum ones 140 pounds $5000.
your post got me thinking here.. lots of people think aluminumblocks are just way to expensive but looking at it like that makes me think it may be the cheapest way to loose 160lbs you can find
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: LUMI]
#1070015
09/08/11 02:49 PM
09/08/11 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 627
IN
BIG BEAR
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 627
IN
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Quote:
do it like my engine has been done 
Venolia 4.5 pistons, Callies 4.77 Crank, 6.8" H beam Rods, Koleno KP440 Block, out of the box Koffel B1 Original Heads, B1 intake, 1050 Holley Dominator, Crane Mec Roller 320/328deg 114 disp angle int .79 ex .76 with 1.7 ratio, CR10.69
dynoed at Koffels Place and with Shell 93 Octane Pump fuel
Hopefully she treats you well
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: wheelsup68dart]
#1070017
09/08/11 07:16 PM
09/08/11 07:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,049
San Jose Ca.
boatracer572
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,049
San Jose Ca.
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Quote:
Looking to step up to the 8.50's in 1/4 next season, not gonna do it with the small block. I believe 850 flywheel HP will get me there at 2650 lbs. Starting from scratch, how would you get there? Car will be BB, RB, with power glide and Dana 60 4.88 gear.
540 CID (4.5 bore 4.25 stroke) unported predator heads, single 1050,solid flat tappet cam( non roller) will get u 850+ hp. And there is tons of room to grow.
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: AndyF]
#1070019
09/08/11 07:56 PM
09/08/11 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
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aluminum blocks weigh what 150 less but supposedly make less power on the plus side easily repairable and new sleeves a cinch to get done. larger return when selling.
home of the
Sox and Martin Hemi Duster
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Re: Build me 850 HP in most economical package
[Re: wheelsup68dart]
#1070020
09/08/11 07:59 PM
09/08/11 07:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Looking to step up to the 8.50's in 1/4 next season, not gonna do it with the small block. I believe 850 flywheel HP will get me there at 2650 lbs. Starting from scratch, how would you get there? Car will be BB, RB, with power glide and Dana 60 4.88 gear.
Does it weigh 2650# with the small block? If it does, you will be @ 2800# with the BB..
Wallace says 900 hp in perfect conditions, and drag coefficient..
IMO.. You are going to need close to 1000hp to do this. B1 MC's all the way and the biggest you can build....
If 8.50's were that easy in a Mopar.. A lot more guys would be doing it. Plus.... In bad conditions you'll need the extra hp.
Al Alguire's Barracuda just gets that 8.50 mark in 3500'- 4000' DA 2800 lbs. and his B1 MC (really actually) makes over 1000 hp.
Doesn't Fred's 588" barely run 8.50's with 2 Dominators..
You could always put a Rat Motor in it and go plenty fast...
I'm just saying.. It's not that simple..
You wanted something to think about..
Chris..
That would be Perfect, cause then I do not need ballast for super street, the 8.50 was a guideline for ET, but I would be plenty satisfied with anything between 8.50-9.00 and somewhere in the 5.65-5.75 1/8th mile. I think the aluminum block may be needed to not make weight go to high.
You'll most likely use the Indy block, as BG is a WD for them.. Not my first choice.. But better that World IMO.. KB is tops..
If you go B1's, (strongly recommend), Koffel has his sale starting in Nov. MC's included.
The bigger, the better on the motor, as you can keep the rpms down.. Doesn't cost any extra, if you don't go crazy..
My 540" B1 has gone 8.70's @ 153, 3000# over 2800' DA.. It dynoed @ 972hp on one dyno and 948hp on another.. 
Still working on converter.. Have 4 so far.. PG's are great once you find that magic converter..
I think Al is on #6 converter..
It's all fun though.. Going 10.90 @ over 150mph.. 
Chris..
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