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Air/fuel meter??? #1065593 08/30/11 06:33 AM 08/30/11 06:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 998 Clinton Township, Michigan D Dartin OP super stock
Dartin OP super stock D Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 998 Clinton Township, Michigan	I'm looking to buy something along the lines of an Innovate LM-2 or one of their MTX-L gauges. Can you guys tell me your experiences both good or bad on either of these. I'm leaning towards the MTX-L mostly because of price and I don't need OBD capabilities. I'm looking for something that has playback capability, works with gas or E85, is accurate, and easy to use. Did I mention cheap? Any advice is appreciated. Randy

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: Dartin] #1065594 08/30/11 09:08 AM 08/30/11 09:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,512 PA moparacer master
moparacer master Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,512 PA	Dont know about the other one but I can speak from personal experience when I tell you NOT to get a LM2..... 67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: moparacer] #1065595 08/30/11 12:42 PM 08/30/11 12:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,727 Moved to N.E. Tennessee GomangoCuda master
GomangoCuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,727 Moved to N.E. Tennessee	Quote: Dont know about the other one but I can speak from personal experience when I tell you NOT to get a LM2..... I was thinking about getting an LM-2 and when I checked out their forums it was full of people having all kinds of problems with them and not much help from Innovate. Now I don't know what to do. There are not many choices when it comes to datalogging O2 meters that don't cost an arm and a leg. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: GomangoCuda] #1065596 08/30/11 01:06 PM 08/30/11 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,436 Oklahoma City OK Cudajon pro stock
Cudajon pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,436 Oklahoma City OK	Had a LM1 and it seemed to be ok but I wanted full time monitoring and it was kinda clutsy so I put in a Autometer. Had it for almost2 years and I'm happy. Has a provision to record. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J3K94cRC1c

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: Dartin] #1065597 08/30/11 01:23 PM 08/30/11 01:23 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction @ @#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk!
@#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk! @ Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction	I use the LM2 but not the OBD features. I can't imagine using one that doesn't have both record and rpm features. You just can't watch the display as fast as the data updates and you need the rpm to correlate mixture readings to where the engine is running. I also have inputs that show when the line lock/transmission brake release and when the automated 1-2 shift occurs. Once the data is displayed on your computer you can stretch out time for a close look and even measure the time interval between events. My original sensor from early '09 started to act up recently and I found O'rielly's has them for $52. I put the original in the Demon and ran it for a while and it seems fine now after some use at near stoich. afr's.

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: Dartin] #1065598 08/30/11 03:30 PM 08/30/11 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,864 S.E. Michigan ZIPPY I Live Here
ZIPPY I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,864 S.E. Michigan	The red FAST display has playback ability and costs maybe a little less than the others. Where it falls down is, it plays back to it's own display on the little screen and that's all you get. If that's enough, it might be worth a look. If you need it to dump to a laptop into a spreadsheet or something like that, it won't work....look somewhere else. It's kind of caveman which is what I wanted....I don't want to haul a laptop around in my 1969 musclecar all the time, it just seems wrong. Daytona Sensor makes one also...if I remember right...it can do the spreadsheet thing and so on. Have used that one at work a little bit and it seems pretty nice. Might be worth a look. Rich H. Esse Quam Videri

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: ZIPPY] #1065599 08/30/11 03:46 PM 08/30/11 03:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,295 U.S. M moparniac master
moparniac master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,295 U.S.	Ive ran the autometer in my last 2 rides and I like the setup! I keep an eye on it at WOT but it can record at WOT... I think its a great tool and dont think i'll ever run without some type again I just wanted to see how low I could get her to idle... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74cnr_Xjl4 Mopar Performance

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: moparniac] #1065600 08/30/11 06:27 PM 08/30/11 06:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 781 wine country 8 8urvette super stock
8urvette super stock 8 Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 781 wine country	i bought a lc-1, no record, but it was cheap, easy to install and works flawlessly all the time.

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: 8urvette] #1065601 08/30/11 07:51 PM 08/30/11 07:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,274 s.w.fl B bonefish master
bonefish master B Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,274 s.w.fl	i just ordered an lm-1,ill letcha know how it works.

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: ZIPPY] #1065602 08/30/11 08:54 PM 08/30/11 08:54 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction @ @#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk!
@#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk! @ Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction	Which one requires you to haul around a laptop? Quote: ...I don't want to haul a laptop around in my 1969 musclecar all the time, it just seems wrong.

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: @#$%&*!] #1065603 08/30/11 09:16 PM 08/30/11 09:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 998 Clinton Township, Michigan D Dartin OP super stock
Dartin OP super stock D Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 998 Clinton Township, Michigan	Thanks Guys for the info. This is the stuff I want to hear. With real experiences and reasons for opinions, both good and bad, I can make an educated decision on what suites my needs. Please keep it coming! Randy

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: moparniac] #1065604 08/30/11 10:31 PM 08/30/11 10:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 9,225 Charleston S sixpackgut Drag Week Mod Champion
sixpackgut Drag Week Mod Champion S Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 9,225 Charleston	Quote: Ive ran the autometer in my last 2 rides and I like the setup! I keep an eye on it at WOT but it can record at WOT... I think its a great tool and dont think i'll ever run without some type again I just wanted to see how low I could get her to idle... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74cnr_Xjl4 Sledgie, im lazy. how much does that cost? do you get everything you need in one kit or do you have to buy the guage seperate or what? Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: sixpackgut] #1065605 08/30/11 11:29 PM 08/30/11 11:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,295 U.S. M moparniac master
moparniac master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,295 U.S.	yes ray all in 1 deal http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/Auto-Meter/?keyword=wideband Mopar Performance

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: moparniac] #1065606 09/01/11 06:15 AM 09/01/11 06:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 520 New Zealand nz383man mopar
nz383man mopar Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 520 New Zealand	I use a LM-2, I did have a bit of trouble getting the RPM to work but they keep putting out upgrades that are free to download & after a few small changes my RPM log is perfect. I also log vacuum (MAP) and of course A/F The SD card system & logworks software is worth it's weight in gold You can see so much more when you are not trying to drive the car as well & the SD card just pops out, into your laptop & you get a really good look at what is actually happening buy either looking at a custom set of gauges that move in real time or in graph mode. Here is a print screen of the graph mode of one of the logs from my 383. Another good feature with the LM-2 is the screen reverses the colours of the background & the numbers when you are recording so you can tell at a glance that it is recording.

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: nz383man] #1065607 09/01/11 09:05 AM 09/01/11 09:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,028 Tulsa OK Bad340fish master
Bad340fish master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,028 Tulsa OK	I have an LM2 that I am pretty new to. I haven't used it much but so far I like it. Since my Barracuda is apart I have used it some on my jeep just to get the hang of it. It works well. Like mentioned above its easy to pop the SD card in your laptop and playback your runs. 68 Barracuda Formula S 340

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: nz383man] #1065608 09/01/11 02:08 PM 09/01/11 02:08 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction @ @#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk!
@#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk! @ Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction	The LM2 manual shows how to build an attenuator to condition the Coil-Negative signal. This signal can vary greatly depending on your ignition system. I made an adapter that consists of 2 resistors, 2 alligator clips, and one spade terminal. One clip connects to ground, the other to the coil signal, and the other to the RPM input wire. It's worked with every mopar-ECU system I've tried. The resistors I used are around 7k-ohms; on the ground side and 45k-ohms; to the coil signal. The actual values don't matter as long as the ratio is in the ballpark and you don't use resistor values low enough to load down coil circuit. For use with my MSD 6AL the LM2 hooks up directly to the tach ouput port but I had to reverse the triggering slope in the settings for a smooth signal. Here's a log screenshot from last night where the car ran a [Email]10.03@133.3mph.[/Email] You can see that I probably over-revved it a little in first and short-shifted a little in second (it was my first attempt at shifting by a shift-light instead of the tachometer). You can also see the lean spike after launch and then it goes a little rich for a while. You'll never see that kind of info by watching numbers flash on a display. The finish line rpm shows that it helped to pull the chip from the rev limiter, it had been limiting me to 6800 even though it should have been good to 7000rpm. The red line shows when the line lock is activated, the black line is rpm and the purple line is AFR. Quote: I use a LM-2, I did have a bit of trouble getting the RPM to work but they keep putting out upgrades that are free to download & after a few small changes my RPM log is perfect. I also log vacuum (MAP) and of course A/F The SD card system & logworks software is worth it's weight in gold You can see so much more when you are not trying to drive the car as well & the SD card just pops out, into your laptop & you get a really good look at what is actually happening buy either looking at a custom set of gauges that move in real time or in graph mode.

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: @#$%&*!] #1065609 09/01/11 06:54 PM 09/01/11 06:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	I use an MTX-L gauge. I got it from a dealer on yellowbullet.com for an AMAZING price shipped. Its a permanent install gauge, but i have it rigged for temp use since im going to be moving between mine and bro and dad's cars. So far so good, im happy with how it works. I had to buy a serial converter cable to have it work with my laptop, but now I can datalog with it...yes, it does not show RPM's, but im fine with that. I have the laptop plugged into it, after I burnout just as im about to stage I hit the record button, and then pass the stripe and stop the record process...When looking at the graph you can see all the gear changes and watch where the AFR is going It's not the most accurate, but it works for me...and for the price, you can't go wrong

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: moparniac] #1065610 09/01/11 06:55 PM 09/01/11 06:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Quote: Ive ran the autometer in my last 2 rides and I like the setup! I keep an eye on it at WOT but it can record at WOT... I think its a great tool and dont think i'll ever run without some type again I just wanted to see how low I could get her to idle... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74cnr_Xjl4 thanks for that vid, atleast now I know its normal for the idle to touch into the low 15's every once in a while...I was worried that I may be running too lean

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: mshred] #1065611 09/01/11 09:54 PM 09/01/11 09:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 998 Clinton Township, Michigan D Dartin OP super stock
Dartin OP super stock D Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 998 Clinton Township, Michigan	Thanks again for all the info Guys. After reading numerous reviews for both the Innovate LM-2 and the Zeitronix ZT-2 with their ZR-2 gauge and calling Innovate and Zeitronix to have a couple questions answered, I opted for the zeitronix. It sounds a little easier to use for a non tech guy like myself. They both have their pro's and con's. The guy that I spoke to from Zeitronix was very knowledgeable about his product and was more than happy to answer my questions, plus their product is made right here in the good ole USA! I will let everyone know how it works out after I receive it and play with it some. Wish me luck...... Randy

Re: Air/fuel meter??? [Re: Dartin] #1065612 09/02/11 01:34 AM 09/02/11 01:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Quote: Thanks again for all the info Guys. After reading numerous reviews for both the Innovate LM-2 and the Zeitronix ZT-2 with their ZR-2 gauge and calling Innovate and Zeitronix to have a couple questions answered, I opted for the zeitronix. It sounds a little easier to use for a non tech guy like myself. They both have their pro's and con's. The guy that I spoke to from Zeitronix was very knowledgeable about his product and was more than happy to answer my questions, plus their product is made right here in the good ole USA! I will let everyone know how it works out after I receive it and play with it some. Wish me luck...... Randy They are a good unit, my friend has one on his blown C4 vette and he is far from being tech or computer savvy, and he loves it! good luck

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