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Re: HP for $$$ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1037564
07/22/11 10:07 PM
07/22/11 10:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,089
st.cloud fl
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d-150 Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
d-150  Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
D

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Posts: 1,089
st.cloud fl
think he is adding in the 150 horse it takes to run supercharger back into motor

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: plycuda] #1037565
07/23/11 12:21 AM
07/23/11 12:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
master
1967dartgt  Offline
master

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Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

mr.yuck i was going with original post horsepower for the money. to me 2200 or 4000 dollars for a half second is pretty expensive. between big block and small block good quality parts about same price then add 4000 dollars just to keep up with big block just ain't cheap.give me half the supercharger cost with big block and it will blow the doors off the small block




My buddy with a 406 small block and a liitle procharger F-2 on pump gas and 15 pounds of boost made 711 hp to the rear tire. Figure thats 100 hp in drivetrain losses and 150 hp to turn the supercharger so thats almost a 1000 hp on pump gas and a small block lets see your combo for a n/a big block on pumpgas that makes that kind
of steam!!




Only been to track once. Blew the tube off the carb at 800 to 900 feet went 10.73 at 88 mph. It ran a 6.11 to the 660 so it's hailin the mail. Oh did I say it was on 17 in drag radials too. It a protouring car with big brakes and all.

what did it run I've seen plenty of 1000hp cars on pass time running 10's




Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: HP for $$$ [Re: d-150] #1037566
07/23/11 12:27 AM
07/23/11 12:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
master
1967dartgt  Offline
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Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
Quote:

think he is adding in the 150 horse it takes to run supercharger back into motor




If it takes 150 to turn the supercharger then the motor is intheory making close to a 1000 HP.


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: HP for $$$ [Re: 1967dartgt] #1037567
07/23/11 08:48 AM
07/23/11 08:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340 Offline
master
fishy340  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
what do big block heads cost 200 bucks? a cam 30 bucks...u keep sayin cheap heads for both cost the same..cams the same ... carb the same ...pistons the same..and so on...give me a break and if it so cheap why is 65% going sb..and the other 25% building hemi's ask zippy im sure he can let us know what demand mopaR has for aftermarket blocks!

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: 1967dartgt] #1037568
07/23/11 09:21 AM
07/23/11 09:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee Offline
master
dannysbee  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

mr.yuck i was going with original post horsepower for the money. to me 2200 or 4000 dollars for a half second is pretty expensive. between big block and small block good quality parts about same price then add 4000 dollars just to keep up with big block just ain't cheap.give me half the supercharger cost with big block and it will blow the doors off the small block




My buddy with a 406 small block and a liitle procharger F-2 on pump gas and 15 pounds of boost made 711 hp to the rear tire. Figure thats 100 hp in drivetrain losses and 150 hp to turn the supercharger so thats almost a 1000 hp on pump gas and a small block lets see your combo for a n/a big block on pumpgas that makes that kind
of steam!!




Only been to track once. Blew the tube off the carb at 800 to 900 feet went 10.73 at 88 mph. It ran a 6.11 to the 660 so it's hailin the mail. Oh did I say it was on 17 in drag radials too. It a protouring car with big brakes and all.

what did it run I've seen plenty of 1000hp cars on pass time running 10's







Thats pretty simple the hp the blower is killing should never be added back in, the blower ate it up it's gone. The car is making 711 at the wheels so its a 820 to 850 at the flywheel.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: HP for $$$ [Re: fishy340] #1037569
07/23/11 10:12 AM
07/23/11 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,089
st.cloud fl
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d-150 Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
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Posts: 1,089
st.cloud fl
budget build 550hp how much $$ are you going to have in the small block.how much $$ are you going to have in the hemi.and then how much money will you have in a 383 400 or 440.

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: d-150] #1037570
07/23/11 10:37 AM
07/23/11 10:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

budget build 550hp how much $$ are you going to have in the small block.how much $$ are you going to have in the hemi.and then how much money will you have in a 383 400 or 440.




right, nobody said you can't make 550 w/ a SB, but it can be done much easier and cheaper w/ a BB. I didn't add Hemi's because hey are too expensive for most. I've know guys that took a lower milage 440 apart in the grage, re-ring, quick hone, new t-chain, cam, clean up the heads, reassemble add used intake, headers, 750DP and run mid 12's in a heavy B-body. (BTW that's 11's in an A-body) Not going to do that w/ a small block. Not as cheap anyway.

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1037571
07/23/11 10:55 AM
07/23/11 10:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

budget build 550hp how much $$ are you going to have in the small block.how much $$ are you going to have in the hemi.and then how much money will you have in a 383 400 or 440.




right, nobody said you can't make 550 w/ a SB, but it can be done much easier and cheaper w/ a BB. I didn't add Hemi's because hey are too expensive for most. I've know guys that took a lower milage 440 apart in the grage, re-ring, quick hone, new t-chain, cam, clean up the heads, reassemble add used intake, headers, 750DP and run mid 12's in a heavy B-body. (BTW that's 11's in an A-body) Not going to do that w/ a small block. Not as cheap anyway.




I think some of you need to do a actual price
comparison to see whats what... take a head and price
the same head in both BB and SB and do the same for
the rest of the parts to see what the price difference
really is(dont take a cheap 440 part to a expensive
SB part... try to make it the same part)... yes I
know I can buy the big dollar heads for a SB and have
to get all the pricey stuff thats needed to go with them

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1037572
07/23/11 11:21 AM
07/23/11 11:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
master
Streetwize  Offline
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Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
I think i addressed that in my post, 550 is a 'comfortably attainable' target and probably the best for $$$ per HP comparison.

All in all, the stroker shortblocks are going to be about the same cost, again the difference is in the heads....an OOTB Edelbrock BB and SB (for sake of comparison) cost about the same too, but the BB flows enough to make 550HP, the small block really does not....not without about $1000.00 worth of porting and maybe 200.00 or so for higher rate springs/retainers in order for the smallblock to attain the RPM high enough to flow the air needed for 550hp. You can probably/MAYBE make near 550HP with a hydraulic flat tappet cam in a 408, but that would take a lot more porting and in the end it wouldn't be the way I'd go....by comparison I know it's almost rediculously easy to make 550 with a juicer in an E-head soundly machined Big Block.

Stock stroke, you can certainly get a 340-360 to the 550 range, again thast's with enough head and RPM but I think it'll cost you more, certainly more than a 440 based motor would at the same power level.

Additionally, you can't bring the A motor/A body to B motor/B Body into the equation, to compare fairly it would have to be inthe same vehicle with the only difference being the drivetrain weight itself The small block would have an advantage there in that you can run a much lighter/less power robbing 904 behind one, if it's suitably built. So Again to be fair (if that's what we're really after, not personal preference/bias after all ), it'd be best to back them both with 727's.

Last edited by Streetwize; 07/23/11 11:29 AM.

WIZE

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Re: HP for $$$ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1037573
07/23/11 11:31 AM
07/23/11 11:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
master
1967dartgt  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
Sure if you want to build something supercheap and not put any good parts in it then a big block would be cheaper. But once you start buying any good parts they are really the same.


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: HP for $$$ [Re: Streetwize] #1037574
07/23/11 11:39 AM
07/23/11 11:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
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1967dartgt  Offline
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Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
Weather you chew up the horsepower off the front of the crank or the back with trannys etc the motor still needs to make that horsepower. So that motor see's approx 960 HP worth of stress on the crank rods pistons block.


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: HP for $$$ [Re: fishy340] #1037575
07/23/11 11:58 AM
07/23/11 11:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,854
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
ZIPPY  Offline
I Live Here

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Posts: 17,854
S.E. Michigan
Quote:

ask zippy im sure he can let us know what demand mopaR has for aftermarket blocks!




We almost always run out of RB Wedge blocks before all of the other ones They fly off the shelf compared to the others.

Gen 3 hemi is a pretty good bang for the buck at a certain power level also....

Each has it's upsides and downsides, personally I like them all. I mean, c'mon now...any of them can get the job done.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: HP for $$$ [Re: 1967dartgt] #1037576
07/23/11 12:03 PM
07/23/11 12:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Weather you chew up the horsepower off the front of the crank or the back with trannys etc the motor still needs to make that horsepower. So that motor see's approx 960 HP worth of stress on the crank rods pistons block.




It may see 960 worth of stress but we know stress
doesnt make HP... the engine makes about 820 HP at
the crank

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: 1967dartgt] #1037577
07/23/11 12:07 PM
07/23/11 12:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 653
Fredericksburg Va
P
plycuda Offline
mopar
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mopar
P

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 653
Fredericksburg Va
The other part of it is you can find a ton of parts for big block. My 471 I bought a new set of eagle rods and a crank that was already offset turned for $800 and bought a set of dish pistons with sr heads. It had 125 pounds of cranking compression it would run on 87 octane. I had a 200 kit on it and it ran 5.70 at 124 on 13.50 et streets and exhaust 3400 lbs and drove it all over.

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: 1967dartgt] #1037578
07/23/11 12:08 PM
07/23/11 12:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,180
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,180
PA.
Quote:

Weather you chew up the horsepower off the front of the crank or the back with trannys etc the motor still needs to make that horsepower. So that motor see's approx 960 HP worth of stress on the crank rods pistons block.




You are saying your friends car ran a 6.11 in the 1/8 mile before he had a problem further down the track. That converts over to a 9.52 1/4 mile time. Unless his car is super heavy I think his 800+ HP car appears to be a DOG. No wonder you guys don't like to show your time slips.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: HP for $$$ [Re: pittsburghracer] #1037579
07/23/11 12:51 PM
07/23/11 12:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
At 500hp, you can do an RB cheap, and a LA motor
maybe a bit more!! You increase the power levels,
you increase the build costs.
At these increased hp levels, you'll have to spend more, regardless of block sizes. Oiling systems,
must be upgraded due to the increase in engine rpms. Better heads to support that level of horsepower and stronger bottom end pieces, especially the RB. The bottom line is that both the small and big blocks will cost some coin to build at 550-600 hp. If the ECONO route is chosen, then big blocks would have a "slim" margin in price difference to their advantage, power wise, situation may be reversed with the small block outpowering the big block. Strokers are a completely different story, though this thread compares stock stroke motors.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: HP for $$$ [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1037580
07/23/11 02:39 PM
07/23/11 02:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340 Offline
master
fishy340  Offline
master

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
well thats what i mean,we can buy cheap for both,like cast cranks etc etc.. its all relative to make 500 isnt really that tuff anymore for either bb or sb.. im giving up its to hot.

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1037581
07/23/11 03:12 PM
07/23/11 03:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1
1Fast340 Offline
master
1Fast340  Offline
master
1

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

budget build 550hp how much $$ are you going to have in the small block.how much $$ are you going to have in the hemi.and then how much money will you have in a 383 400 or 440.




right, nobody said you can't make 550 w/ a SB, but it can be done much easier and cheaper w/ a BB. I didn't add Hemi's because hey are too expensive for most. I've know guys that took a lower milage 440 apart in the grage, re-ring, quick hone, new t-chain, cam, clean up the heads, reassemble add used intake, headers, 750DP and run mid 12's in a heavy B-body. (BTW that's 11's in an A-body) Not going to do that w/ a small block. Not as cheap anyway.




I think some of you need to do a actual price
comparison to see whats what... take a head and price
the same head in both BB and SB and do the same for
the rest of the parts to see what the price difference
really is(dont take a cheap 440 part to a expensive
SB part... try to make it the same part)... yes I
know I can buy the big dollar heads for a SB and have
to get all the pricey stuff thats needed to go with them





all those pricy parts that needs to be added to the good smallblockheads arent realy all that expensive depending on how you look at it, if you build a motor from scratch and wants good highquality parts all the way it adds up anyway nomather if its exotic heads or not. for an example i dont think jesel or T&D rockers will be much more expensive for a W9 compared to a stock or stockreplacement head

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: 1Fast340] #1037582
07/23/11 03:29 PM
07/23/11 03:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
all those pricy parts that needs to be added to the good smallblockheads arent realy all that expensive depending on how you look at it, if you build a motor from scratch and wants good highquality parts all the way it adds up anyway nomather if its exotic heads or not. for an example i dont think jesel or T&D rockers will be much more expensive for a W9 compared to a stock or stockreplacement head




All I was trying to say was ... be equal and not bias
on the parts pricing... yes I agree some what on the
price... but lets face it, the quality parts cost more
than the normal run of the mill parts but you get
quality

Re: HP for $$$ [Re: pittsburghracer] #1037583
07/23/11 06:39 PM
07/23/11 06:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
master
1967dartgt  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
Quote:

Quote:

Weather you chew up the horsepower off the front of the crank or the back with trannys etc the motor still needs to make that horsepower. So that motor see's approx 960 HP worth of stress on the crank rods pistons block.




You are saying your friends car ran a 6.11 in the 1/8 mile before he had a problem further down the track. That converts over to a 9.52 1/4 mile time. Unless his car is super heavy I think his 800+ HP car appears to be a DOG. No wonder you guys don't like to show your time slips. [/quote

As stated on other post the car is a protouring car running 17in tires 6 piston bear brakes 13 front 12 in the back full leather interior was just a feature car in a big mag runs on pump gas should go 9.50s at the track in street trim and is a dog? What does that make your sons car a super slug? 10.50s in a car set up to go race.


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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