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Re: Six Pack Vacuum Secondary Spring Swap
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1019761
06/24/11 06:23 PM
06/24/11 06:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
Pretty easy just be careful so you don't tear anything.
agreed! the last thing you need is a hole in your rubber!
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Re: Six Pack Vacuum Secondary Spring Swap
[Re: Dodge Don]
#1019766
06/24/11 10:40 PM
06/24/11 10:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Well that was a surprise, my springs are Black. So no going up from that.
Stock set-up springs are black, toss in the whites, work up from there if the tip-in RPM is too soon for you,...BBlk 440/6's like lots of initial advance, so start at 10-12 BTDC, and bump it up till she'll take no more before running hot/pinging/starter kick back,...what the total advance curve?/RPM that it's all in?...
double check that when you change the springs that the diaphram's indexed properly, it has a vacumm passage in it's perimeter, easy to block/distort it, test the pod later to see if a vacumm source will pull it open, to confirm function
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Re: Six Pack Vacuum Secondary Spring Swap
[Re: Dodge Don]
#1019768
06/25/11 09:31 AM
06/25/11 09:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
If it bogs with black springs why would I go down to a lighter spring? Wouldn't that just make it worse?
Your bog might just be the opposite of a sixpack that opens too soon,....the black spring is so stiff the time delay (bog) is in the secondary pods opening so slowly,.....I've done the spring swaps so many times on my cars, and customers, playing with the spring color change graduations, spring after spring, only to find that I usually end up with the white springs,....so i just start right off the bat with them,......I personally like to see the carbs come in at 2500-3000 RPM, basically on command with the "loud pedal", rather than wait for them with a higher "vacumm"(stiffer) rated spring,......your bog may also be related to your ignition, depending on the type of advance, and how much, and when, if it's in/out of sync with the RPM opening of the end carbs,....alot going on, you have to time it all right, otherwise the car falls on it's face
Mike
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Re: Six Pack Vacuum Secondary Spring Swap
[Re: Dodge Don]
#1019769
06/25/11 10:44 AM
06/25/11 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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Quote:
If it bogs with black springs why would I go down to a lighter spring? Wouldn't that just make it worse?
black springs are too heavy. i think your problem is something other than opening rate. check the float level and fuel pressure. if your using an aftermarket vapor seperator the return hole is too big reducing fuel pressure. check the distributor to make sure the centrifugal advance is working. were any mods or aftermarket parts added to the carbs? intake manifold leaking? i've got an edelbrock ch6 on one of my cars that had a hole in it, (casting flaw)!
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Re: Six Pack Vacuum Secondary Spring Swap
[Re: lewtot184]
#1019774
06/25/11 07:26 PM
06/25/11 07:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
just thinking here, why would a professional carb shop put black springs in the diaphragms? using black or brown springs was something thats done when the kill bleeds are blocked. blocking the kill bleeds brings the end carbs in rapidly and heavier springs are installed to compensate for it. if you have a cold intake the problem gets worse. you don't state the engine build, what is it? i think some of the aftermarket parts are more gadjet than necessary. i have two six pak cars that drive beautifully and i've never seen a reason for the gadjets. i've been playing with the six-paks since 1970 and for all practical purposes they just don't need to be re-engineered.
Couldn't have said it better.Here are the last three sets I did a few months back,if you would have seen how they were screwed up and some of the so called modification it would boggle your mind.I to have been doing them since the early 70's and could probably write a book.
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Re: Six Pack Vacuum Secondary Spring Swap
[Re: lewtot184]
#1019777
06/25/11 09:34 PM
06/25/11 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 292
State of Flux
Dodge Don
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 292
State of Flux
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Quote:
if your using the high pressure carter fuel pump check the pressure. they're usually around 8.5-9 psi. the aftermarket vapor seperator will reduce pressure some due to the large return orfice. you might be o.k. but i'd check anyway. do you know how to check and see if the kill bleeds are blocked?
no I do not.
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Re: Six Pack Vacuum Secondary Spring Swap
[Re: Dodge Don]
#1019778
06/25/11 10:43 PM
06/25/11 10:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 815
PNW
Danan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 815
PNW
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1. What is your lowest vacuum reading at idle and cruise?
2. What power valve do you have?
3. What jets do you have in the center and outboard carbs?
4. Do you have an Air/Fuel meter? If so, what is your A/F reading at idle/cruise/WOT? If not, get one!
5. You need to find out where your initial timing is, and what your total (initial and mechanical) timing is.
6. How much of the transfer slot is exposed on the center carb? Oftentimes with a big cam and messed up jetting you end up cranking the idle speed screw WAY in to compensate for everything else that is out of whack. At that point, you are IDLING on the CRUISE circuit, which typically results in flat off-idle acceleration in my experience.
7. For a baseline, I would install the stock (unpainted, in my experience) springs in the secondary carbs and then get everything else right (timing/jetting) before you start messing with springs.
With the above info, you will get much better advice. As it is, everyone is sort of shooting from the hip when they make suggestions. Don't take it like I'm bagging on you, because I'm not. We're all here to help you enjoy your car. Six packs are the quintessential musclecar induction system; you shouldn't have to deal with bogs/poor performance.
But first you need to figure out what's going on with your engine/ignition so you can give the car what it wants/needs.
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