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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: firefighter3931]
#10133
02/03/04 11:17 PM
02/03/04 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,929
NC
440Jim
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Quote:
out of the box they look to be pretty close to a stage1 PRH prepped E-head. Ron
And these Bulldogs were prepped by MM (back cut, etc) so they are not out-of-the-box. I wonder if MM is doing that to the first few heads to make them seem better than they are. Then they can sell more if the image is better. And stage 1 E-head is cheaper! I say E-head 1, Bulldog nothing.
The comparison to an E-head is fine, but really they should be compared to the Indy SR.
Thanks to Dwayne for making time to flow these and post the results. I am sure he has other customer's heads waiting to get worked on.
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: BradH]
#10135
02/04/04 11:02 AM
02/04/04 11:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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soooooooooooooo, im getting ready to tweek the exhaust port a little....and after i removed about .020-.030 of material off the floor near the port exit.....i created a hole  
i called MM, and they are sending a call tag to have the head picked up and either they or Bulldog will evaluate the casting to see what gives.
as for these heads being true "out of the box" since they came from MM, i would have to say they should be considered as such since there wasnt any type of "modifications" done to them other than perhaps a back cut to the intake valve....and the valves may come from the supplier that way.
i did go and do a basic clean up of the intake bowl for #1, since that port was down on flow(i'll post the numbers later), but it looks like it will take a bit of work to get the weaker ports into the 305-310cfm range.
not as much as an E head, but probably more than an SR.
i'll have to go through my notes to see if i can find some numbers for an SR with only a bowl blend to see how the mid-lift numbers compare.
at this point(which granted is very early on in the Bulldog testing) i still feel the best port design for the application these heads are targeting is...believe it or not...the original stage VI.
if that head were manufactured with the quality of an E head....that would be a very good product.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#10136
02/04/04 12:21 PM
02/04/04 12:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,503
Illinois
CRE2004
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,503
Illinois
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Quote:
Poster: fast68plymouth
Subject: Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
soooooooooooooo, im getting ready to tweek the exhaust port a little....and after i removed about .020-.030 of material off the floor near the port exit.....i created a hole
Do you think that's a flaw of the core design or just a casting defect??
Quote:
i did go and do a basic clean up of the intake bowl for #1, since that port was down on flow(i'll post the numbers later), but it looks like it will take a bit of work to get the weaker ports into the 305-310cfm range.
not as much as an E head, but probably more than an SR.
This is really disappointing.... these heads were touted as having 400 cfm capability... 
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: CRE2004]
#10137
02/04/04 01:11 PM
02/04/04 01:11 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
This is really disappointing.... these heads were touted as having 400 cfm capability...
There is a lot of misconception out there about the Bulldog heads. They are designed as a street replacement head. The idea was to have them flow better than the Edelbrock out of the box with potential for porting to go somewhere in the 350 range. 400 CFM is more than a little unrealistic for a bolt on street style head. You are in original B1 territory there, with 310CC runners, B1 specific intake manifold and rockers. Obviously there are some issues yet to be worked out, but I feel the potential is still good.
Scott
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#10138
02/04/04 01:39 PM
02/04/04 01:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,929
NC
440Jim
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Quote:
i called MM, and they are sending a call tag to have the head picked up and either they or Bulldog will evaluate the casting to see what gives.
You are taking that extra step. Some vendors would just call the customer that supplied the head and tell them to deal with it. Outstanding.
I think these will be a good head. The application and cost will dictate which of the available heads is right for each customer.
Scott, do you know if they come with the back cut valve? Have any been delivered to you for sale?
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: Molloy]
#10140
02/04/04 01:53 PM
02/04/04 01:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
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Quote:
oooooooooooooo, im getting ready to tweek the exhaust port a little....and after i removed about .020-.030 of material off the floor near the port exit.....i created a hole
Ouch!!!!! That's a bummer, good thing the heads were to be ported, I don't imagine a .030 wall of material would have lasted long on the running motor . Was the spot already worked by MM or was it a bare casting spot?
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: CRE2004]
#10141
02/04/04 03:05 PM
02/04/04 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Quote:
Do you think that's a flaw of the core design or just a casting defect??
im not really sure.
i suppose it could be either, which is why MM wants the head back to what the deal is.
its just teething pains for a new product, and im sure it will get worked out.
my estimation of these heads, or this head design is....its a more user friendly SR head.
no external oil lines or special headers required, or valley tray spacers/special valley cover.
im waiting to proceed on the second head until i hear back from either MM or Bulldog as to whether that head was thin under all the exhaust ports, or just that one port.
IMO, that head should be sectioned and analyzed to see if it was a casting flaw or core problem.
CBK, i broke through right about where the CNC'd port opening meets the as cast floor.
i was just going to blend in the edges and bowl, and then retest that port.
as soon as i got the carbide in that area of the port, it dimpled in, and i knew it was thin.
i poked it with my pocket knife and a piece about a 1/4" around fell out.
i will say that while Eric at MM certainly wasnt happy to hear there was a hole in the head, he was more than willing to get the head back there so they could check it out.
im sure there will be numerous people running these heads with good success this summer at tracks all over the country....just like all the other aftermarket BB heads out there.
im also looking forward to seeing how they perform the first time i get to try them on the dyno.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#10144
02/05/04 11:07 PM
02/05/04 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,855
Staten Island N.Y.
Dap
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,855
Staten Island N.Y.
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Yes this rather disapointing  but like Dwayne said it`s teething pains with a new product.I was in contact with MM today and mike said they will make sure it gets sorted out.
PRH446
10.084 @ 135.21 mph N/A through chambered mufflers,3300lbs. Stock stroke wedge
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#10145
02/05/04 11:08 PM
02/05/04 11:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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well...obviously because of the thin spot in the exhaust port it wasnt a "good" casting.
however, it just seemed like the shape of the core plugs for the left and right intake ports are different between the two, which is where i think the difference in flow came from.
i figured i'd post some out of the box #'s for the SR's to compare with:
lift----in/ex
.100--66.8/58.2
.200-131.7/105.4
.300-189.0/146.2
.400-238.0/175.6
.500-273.7/192.6
.550-284.9/198.6
.600-289.7/202.3
.650-291.3/205.9
.700-292.9/208.3
heres the BD numbers again:
lift-----#1I/#3I/#1E
.100--67.4/-68.0/55.7
.200-140.0/140.0/101.8
.300-203.7/206.1/141.8
.400-249.9/256.3/175.8
.450-270.7/278.7/187.9
.500-283.6/293.2/196.4
.550-281.2/291.9/204.9
.600-281.2/295.5/207.3
.650-286.6/297.3/208.5
.700-288.4/297.3/208.5
as you can see, even the weaker of the two intake ports is showing a nice gain in the mid-lifts compared to the SR.
the intake port short turn is shaped very much the same as a stage VI head(which also has good mid-lift numbers).
ive always found the SR intake short turn to be a bit of a challenge to get "right", and im hoping these new heads prove to be a little more "porter friendly" 
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#10146
02/05/04 11:30 PM
02/05/04 11:30 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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"porter friendly" nice play on words, LOL. the mid lifts do look good, i hope theyget the casting issues taken care of though. those heads would be pretty worthless if you can't port them. a little tweak here and a little tweak there, here a tweak, there a tweak, everywhere a tweak tweak... 
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
#10147
02/05/04 11:41 PM
02/05/04 11:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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oh...i almost forgot.
i did do a minor bowl clean up and blended the short turn for the #1 cylinder before the head was picked up to go back to MM.
i also narrowed the valve seat to about .045.
there is still a little turbulence up top, but i didnt really attack the short turn yet.
lift---#1I
.100--68.5
.200-140.9
.300-203.7
.400-253.1
.450-273.9
.500-288.4
.550-299.1
.600-293.7
.650-297.3
.700-299.1
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#10148
02/06/04 12:05 AM
02/06/04 12:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,929
NC
440Jim
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It looks like Bulldog beat the Indy SR out-of-the-box. Bulldog 1, Indy SR nothing That work on the #1 put it close to the #3 (good port). That was good news. Now do you think the #3 would have picked up with the same work? When the "holed" casting gets sorted out and you get back to the "mild" porting, we can see if a ported Bulldog compares to a ported SR.
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#10150
02/07/04 09:47 PM
02/07/04 09:47 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#10151
02/07/04 09:52 PM
02/07/04 09:52 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: Get yer Bulldog flow numbers here......
#10152
02/07/04 10:39 PM
02/07/04 10:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
topfueldart
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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Quote:
Isn't the fact that they sent them to you a modification? How bad were the ones they didn't want anyone to see until they were "fixed"?
Only fair test is a casting taken at random from stock.
They werent sent to dwayne, dap is the owner and he sent them directly to dwayne to have some work done and see there potential ...
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
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