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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: MattW]
#1003852
10/11/11 08:25 PM
10/11/11 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Finally got 'em and they're shipping.
And worth the wait, too.
They're set up to be vendor ship direct, which means it ships to your dealer direct from the machine shop in Auburn Hills, MI.
Vendor ship direct also means dealers can't see any warehouse inventory, so they might be a little nervous promising an arrival date. Tell them not to worry.
Order it, and it'll show up.
Anyway here is the spread of part numbers:
P5155507 4.125 finished bored, fully machined
P5153897 4.055 finish bored, fully machined
P5153898 semi finished machining, 4.114 bore, can be bored to 4.185
P5155630 semi finished machining "builder's special", no assembled components, allows user to finish machining to their unique requirements and aftermarket bearings if necessary
All blocks are made from casting P5153896. (P5153896AA is the most current and most often seen casting).
They're 98lbs lighter than stock. They're nice to work with, and are quite a departure from the old iron I am more accustomed to.
Here's a couple shots of an aluminum 440CI engine.
Are all the block the same except the one that is partially machined?
Do they just have different bores sizes?
I am trying to figure out which one to get and would like to know if the one with the smaller bore has more cylinder wall thickness.
Any help?
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: MattW]
#1003853
10/11/11 09:03 PM
10/11/11 09:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Lynchburg, VA
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First off, all out drag engine can it make at least 900HP N/A minimum. Would like to see numbers over 1,000 at 450 CID.
What is the deck height?
How much spray could you put on it? How does it compare to a R3 or the sprint car aluminum blocks for W series heads?
I am very impressed by these hemis just can't seem to get honest answers. I would love to do one all out for my Barracuda.
If someone has an interest better speak up. I am days away from buying an R5 EEI block or maybe a complete EEI R5 P7 engine.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: Leon441]
#1003854
10/11/11 09:36 PM
10/11/11 09:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,673
On the parachute mount
n20mstr
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,673
On the parachute mount
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Leon contact Scott Brown, he has some good info on these engines. Over 426 will require a custom crank and getting rid of the factory reluctor wheel off the crank. No big deal as you will prob just run a external crank trigger anyway. No one has really built one of these engines for nitrous, But imagine this, 426 cubes, sheetmetal intake, fuel injection, 2 foggers could be 4 stages of dry nitrous.....I know sounds pretty nice Oh yea they have been making in the 800 - 850 range already NA with these engines.....best part is they are considered Small Blocks by most racing sanctions , at least for now...LOL
Last edited by n20mstr; 10/11/11 09:38 PM.
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: n20mstr]
#1003855
10/11/11 09:41 PM
10/11/11 09:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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4.185 bore block 4.250" BPE crank and you have 461 CID. That is store bought parts.
BES had two belt drive distributors on theres for Engine Masters the other year. The Jesel rocker system is $3,500. The engines can make big power just don't know how big.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: Leon441]
#1003856
10/11/11 10:11 PM
10/11/11 10:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
4.185 bore block 4.250" BPE crank and you have 461 CID. That is store bought parts.
BES had two belt drive distributors on theres for Engine Masters the other year. The Jesel rocker system is $3,500. The engines can make big power just don't know how big.
Leon
I would love to do one of these and I don't know of anyone who has done a N/A all out deal yet. Seen quite a few boosted that make pretty big power, but nothing with the aluminum block yet.
With the cost of some of the parts that are still up there $$$, it is still hard to beat a big inch all alum big block. If I had the coin to spend, I would have "Diablo's" old engine that is for sale in the parts section. That is a bad piece for the money. 
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1003857
10/11/11 11:46 PM
10/11/11 11:46 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
Irun5snd8th
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
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I keep hearing that they are making these 700-850 NA numbers but at this point I have yet to see a real world engine produce that much with the exception of BES and that was a bunch of trick one of a kind crap in that engine. Show me someone with a real combo making that power without issues. You have several people on here with money ready to spend and as Leon stated we arent getting real answers.
AFCO, Rons Fuel Injection sponsored Dodge Challenger
Mention Street Lethal Motorsports
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: n20mstr]
#1003858
10/12/11 10:19 AM
10/12/11 10:19 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Leon contact Scott Brown, he has some good info on these engines. Over 426 will require a custom crank and getting rid of the factory reluctor wheel off the crank. No big deal as you will prob just run a external crank trigger anyway. No one has really built one of these engines for nitrous, But imagine this, 426 cubes, sheetmetal intake, fuel injection, 2 foggers could be 4 stages of dry nitrous.....I know sounds pretty nice Oh yea they have been making in the 800 - 850 range already NA with these engines.....best part is they are considered Small Blocks by most racing sanctions , at least for now...LOL
I think the biggest problem ,when you get to this level , will be head gasket sealing.
Mopar should have the extra bolts on the head and block.
You would have to machine it but have them there.
Last edited by MattW; 10/12/11 08:12 PM.
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: MattW]
#1003859
10/12/11 08:33 PM
10/12/11 08:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Leon contact Scott Brown, he has some good info on these engines. Over 426 will require a custom crank and getting rid of the factory reluctor wheel off the crank. No big deal as you will prob just run a external crank trigger anyway. No one has really built one of these engines for nitrous, But imagine this, 426 cubes, sheetmetal intake, fuel injection, 2 foggers could be 4 stages of dry nitrous.....I know sounds pretty nice Oh yea they have been making in the 800 - 850 range already NA with these engines.....best part is they are considered Small Blocks by most racing sanctions , at least for now...LOL
I think the biggest problem ,when you get to this level , will be head gasket sealing.
Mopar should have the extra bolts on the head and block.
You would have to machine it but have them there.
Leon, Kurt Busch is in super gas and running an aluminum G3 with 1600 hp and thats with 6.1 heads.
Apparently the 6.1 don't flow well above 8000 rpm  but the 6.4 heads take care of that.
He is at 8:30 at 168 with 17 psi turbo.
The guy who build the engine is Donnie Lewis at MERE.
Now for another question which block to use?
Are all the block the same except for the level of machining?
And remember that with a production head 
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: MattW]
#1003860
10/12/11 10:00 PM
10/12/11 10:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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Lynchburg, VA
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The BES engine masters engine had some tricks but, obviously nothing that could not be bought. Tony offered that engine with fuel injection for $10,000. How can you complain about a price like that.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: Leon441]
#1003861
10/12/11 11:07 PM
10/12/11 11:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
HEMIDARTS
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Posts: 3,354
ohio
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Leon i know Barton is making some serious steam with these new HEMI's. Just look at what he did at Indy!!  If he did not have to follow the nhra rules, he could make some REAL SERIOUS power!!! What i am saying is that people are making the power. Ray said at Indy that he had just started messing with that motor and hadnt really done anything yet. 
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: HEMIDARTS]
#1003862
10/13/11 12:46 AM
10/13/11 12:46 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
Irun5snd8th
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Ask him how many they have blown up trying to get to that power level. Furthermore 6 of them blew up at Indy. Keep asking questions and have yet to get a definitive answer on what the oiling issue is with these blocks and how to fix it. Barton said if he built it the issue would be resolved but would not elude what the issue was
AFCO, Rons Fuel Injection sponsored Dodge Challenger
Mention Street Lethal Motorsports
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#1003863
10/13/11 11:35 AM
10/13/11 11:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
HEMIDARTS
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ohio
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Yeah sadly that is how the game is played. Barton dont want to give away his secrects. I cant blame him, but it does not help anyone else. It puts money in his pocket, but thats how he takes care of his family. And im sure he spent some money to learn about those HEMI's. The oiling issue could be as simple as something they cant change due to the rules for stock and super stock. 
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#1003864
10/13/11 02:40 PM
10/13/11 02:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
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I really don't think there is an oiling issue. The way these new Hemi's are oiled the 7/8 rod's are the last to get oiled. The main problems/failures come from the 5/6 rods, next the 3/4 rods getting married to the crank. Never seen a failure with the 1st oiled 1/2 or the last oiled 7/8 journals. I take it Barton also know's there's an issue with with the exhaust rocker shafts at high rpm. Right after Indy he personally called and bought a set of our rocker shaft ties. I have my own thought's and theories as to why the center 4 cylinder's have issue's and it ain't oil. 
Jerry Williams.
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Re: Mopar Alum. 6.1 Hemi blocks
[Re: hemidup]
#1003866
10/14/11 10:01 AM
10/14/11 10:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
I really don't think there is an oiling issue. The way these new Hemi's are oiled the 7/8 rod's are the last to get oiled. The main problems/failures come from the 5/6 rods, next the 3/4 rods getting married to the crank. Never seen a failure with the 1st oiled 1/2 or the last oiled 7/8 journals.
I take it Barton also know's there's an issue with with the exhaust rocker shafts at high rpm. Right after Indy he personally called and bought a set of our rocker shaft ties.
I have my own thought's and theories as to why the center 4 cylinder's have issue's and it ain't oil.
Sounds like the centre 4 rods are cavitating like the smallblock would if you got over a certain RPM
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