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Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: CSK] #3289852
02/16/25 11:16 AM
02/16/25 11:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,805
north of coder
moparx Offline OP
Buying your homeless and unwanted bolt on battery terminals
moparx  Offline OP
Buying your homeless and unwanted bolt on battery terminals

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north of coder
good heads are in the cards, as well as a different converter. cam swap can be done at that time. suggestions please ?
the T-quad is staying, but a different intake is possible. any suggestions on that ? i have a torker 2 intake on the shelf. thoughts on that intake ?
many, many years ago, i got the car to do a 13.99 @ 97mph. this was without any modern day tuning, which i know will help a lot. it only happened once, as the car usually ran in the mid to low 14's.
as to the 5.38 gear set, i ran that on the street when we had a local 1/8th mile track [R.I.P. NU-BE Dragstrip], and it was a "fun gear" for sure, but was pretty slow cruising to local towns 20 miles away.
next winter, i plan on a 518 transmission swap, and when i do so, i will more than likely step up to 4.30's or 4.56's. the converter recommendations should be for that transmission. the transmission is rebuilt and on the shelf awaiting installation, and i'm making a deal now on a SMP transmission adapter for it. it is a non-lockup version, so i'm guessing a "tight" stall converter would be best.
just acquired the dragy device in late november, so by then we had snow, and no runs were possible. it looks like it won't be possible until mid or late march/early april to try the draggy. yes, i will be more than likely disappointed at the results, but it will give me a base line to work off of.
as it is now, the car is a really fun driver, and has surprised many a 5.0 ferd and 350 chubby, as well as some impressive imports. [also surprised myself in the process !]
just looking to make some improvements on a budget. [i will more than likely buying used, as my budget for "toys" is limited by my budget for doctors and hospitals.]
beer

Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: moparx] #3289867
02/16/25 12:20 PM
02/16/25 12:20 PM
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GTX MATT Offline
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Getting a 383 powered B body into the 12s really shouldn’t be that hard, assuming the short block is in decent shape. Have you actually weighed the car, and is it 4000 LBs with the driver?

At 4000 lbs on the starting line you need about 350 HP to break into the high 12s at a low trap speed like 103/104, and 400 HP to run well into the 12s (like 12.40 @108). But you will need a good chassis setup, slicks, good/right converter (not saying yours is wrong, but it will need to be right) and 3.91s or more gear.

400 HP with a 383 really shouldn’t be too difficult. An Eddy RPM, any 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 headers, straight through mufflers, and decent carb should give you between 350 and 400 HP, even with the cam you already have. Your issue in my opinion is going to be running carb adapters to keep your TQ carb. You can run a Holley Street Dominator which already has the spread bore flange, an M1 is probably a little too racey for what you have and your weight. An Eddy RPM is your best bet but I wouldn’t run it with an adaptor. Although it may be fine that way.

Make sure you have enough fuel pump. If you’re running a mechanical pump and ethanol blended pump gas you are most likely vapor locking unless you’ve got a vapor separator or a return. Make sure you don’t have a filter plumbed before a mechanical pump also. If you’re running a drop base air cleaner make sure there is a minimum of 1 inch of clearance from the highest point on your choke tower and float vents. 3 inch straight through mufflers will make the best power. Turbo mufflers will start to cost you power at this power level, even good 2.5 inch ones, but we’re talking 10-20 HP not 50. Also timing curve will most likely need to be 20+ at idle, all in by 2500 RPM or less, and 36+ degrees total.

Last edited by GTX MATT; 02/16/25 12:23 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: GTX MATT] #3289886
02/16/25 01:29 PM
02/16/25 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,273
A collage of whims
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A collage of whims
I'm gonna come at this from a different angle, mainly from the perspective of mild street manners: a BIG "383".
I know of a '70 Challenger - mild 505, small cam, basically stock everywhere else, 3.23s - that runs 11s leaving in Drive @ sea level.
A 470-ish-inch low deck with decent heads should easily run 12s and be a docile street & highway car.
Some shopping around could keep the build pretty budget-friendly, I would think.

Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: BSB67] #3289890
02/16/25 02:04 PM
02/16/25 02:04 PM
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Portage,michigan
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B3422W5 Offline
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Originally Posted by BSB67
Originally Posted by B3422W5
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Gonna take ~330 HP or so, whatever it takes to get there. Heads/cam maybe. And a better converter at a minimum.


Gonna take way more than that to get a 4000 pound car in the 12’s


There in-lies the problem with unqualified statements. 330 net actual flywheel hp could get him there. That would probably equate to something like 400 engine dyno hp, or more depending on several variables.



400 “ dyno” horsepower and 400 “ flywheel” horsepower should equate to the same thing in a perfect world.
You might be mistaking real wheel horsepower, which will be significantly less than the above readings


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car

1.41 best 60 foot
6.52 @ 105.20



Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: B3422W5] #3289913
02/16/25 04:25 PM
02/16/25 04:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,363
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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Originally Posted by B3422W5
Originally Posted by BSB67
Originally Posted by B3422W5
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Gonna take ~330 HP or so, whatever it takes to get there. Heads/cam maybe. And a better converter at a minimum.


Gonna take way more than that to get a 4000 pound car in the 12’s


There in-lies the problem with unqualified statements. 330 net actual flywheel hp could get him there. That would probably equate to something like 400 engine dyno hp, or more depending on several variables.



400 “ dyno” horsepower and 400 “ flywheel” horsepower should equate to the same thing in a perfect world.
You might be mistaking real wheel horsepower, which will be significantly less than the above readings


No. Not mistaken. Net flywheel does not take into account the atmospheric correction factor, and it does not take into account all of the stuff under the hood (parasitic losses) that does appear on a engine dyno, like air cleaner, exhaust, power steering, fan, maybe the water pump, alternator.

They are both flywheel. The engine dyno measures “gross corrected flywheel hp”. The hp needed at the flywheel in the car on track day, like the Moroso Calculator is “net uncorrected flywheel hp”. In a full out race deal, the net and gross can be the same, or nearly the same. They are quite different in a street car.

Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: moparx] #3289933
02/16/25 06:37 PM
02/16/25 06:37 PM
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Maryland
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twayne24365 Offline
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i had a stock bottom end 383 in a 65 coronet, it was 3500lb with me in it
roughly 8.5:1 with bone stock early 516 heads "dual valve springs"
mopar .528 solid cam
street dominator intake with 850
8" ati treemaster flashed 43-4500
4:56 gears with a 275 drag radial and it went 7.94 in the 1/8.... mid 12s

Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: twayne24365] #3290040
02/17/25 11:27 AM
02/17/25 11:27 AM
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Posts: 14,615
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
The farther the car is front being “optimum” for Drag race use, the more you’ll have to overshoot the theoretically needed HP to achieve a given performance level.

In my mind, as described in the original post, there are several items in that combo that are a fair bit off from “optimum”.

But, as I say……..what any one’s opinion is on how something will run, has no bearing on how it will actually run.
The track(or in this case, the Dragy), will tell the tale.

A not too dissimilar combo from the late 80’s:
71 Charger RT with 140,000 mile 400 out of a Monaco wagon, re-ringed with a PAW kit.
516 heads, remanned, very minor bowl blend, 1.74 ex valves.
MP 484 cam, SD intake, 650DP carb, Black Jack headers.
727, shift kit, Dynamic 10” converter, 4.10’s, 3” exhaust, 28” slicks, 3950 race weight.

Mid-13’s@103-104 typical, best ever 13.30’s@105 in really good air.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: moparx] #3290081
02/17/25 02:00 PM
02/17/25 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,141
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Irving, TX
Too bad there's cold white stuff on the ground. Dragy is kinda fun in the winter. 😄

Screenshot_20240114-112905_dragy.jpg

We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: feets] #3290083
02/17/25 02:04 PM
02/17/25 02:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,363
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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Negative 2800 ft DA and down hill - love that!

Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: BSB67] #3290143
02/17/25 05:30 PM
02/17/25 05:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,958
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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I'd advance the cam about 4 degrees, it will help the middle (shift recovery ) more than it would hurt the top. so it will ET quicker without much gain in MPH.

A 383 with the same heads with the right cam and compression can make equal power to a 440 but always with less torque and with more RPM. Lightening the bobweight (ex shortening the factory pressed pins from 2.93 to ~2.50 ish saves 40-50 grams) really helps 383's.

The achilles heel is the intake closing and overall Cam matching the head flow/ compression and gearing is much more critical to get right than in a 440. all of my 383's were 4 speeds though, be tougher to do with a 727 because too much RPM drop in second.

71-72 B bodies are lighter than 73-74s.


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: carnut68] #3290186
02/17/25 09:09 PM
02/17/25 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
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Wichita
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GY3 Offline
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Wichita
Originally Posted by carnut68
Nitrous will get it there.


Yep!


'63 Dodge 330

11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.

9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.

Re: relatively stock 383 in a 4000lb charger-12's remotely possi [Re: BSB67] #3290307
02/18/25 01:31 PM
02/18/25 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,141
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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feets  Offline
Senior Management

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Irving, TX
Originally Posted by BSB67
Negative 2800 ft DA and down hill - love that!


Less than 5' of down slope then right back up again.

I rolled in at 40 and you can see it was still adding power back in until the 2-3 shift.

Still, the mine shaft DA was hilarious and I had to see what it would do. 😁


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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