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Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: B300 VanDanage] #3223210
03/27/24 06:50 PM
03/27/24 06:50 PM
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I opened the steering column and tested the voltage of the wires on the back of the ignition switch!
The red and pink wires are battery and the dark blue is the one coming in from the splice through the bulkhead connector! It's a red wire from the splice through the connector into the ignition switch harness and from there changes to dark blue!
With the switch off the red and pink battery wires read exactly 13v!
With the switch in the ON position the red wire reads 12.0v and the pink wire reads 12.8v!
With the switch still in the ON position the blue wire reads 11.9v as does the black accessory wire!
If you take a look at the diagram the black and blue wires are switched around! Idk why but they are and the blue wire(red wire from splice) is identified as the accessory and the other is the ignition!
Also...the ground wire reads 0.20v with the switch ON....
Could it be the switch??
Are these readings accurate??

IMG_20240327_153341145.jpgIMG_20240327_153538141.jpg
Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: B300 VanDanage] #3223221
03/27/24 08:14 PM
03/27/24 08:14 PM
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Followed the power up to the ammeter and both of those connections have battery voltage!...

Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: Andrewh] #3223242
03/27/24 10:05 PM
03/27/24 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrewh
that is a nasty splice.
continuity won't be the issue. it will be resistance causing the voltage drop.
but it sounds like it is past that splice anyway.
you probably don't have the extra line in that splice, but the old school way was to put ring connectors on them and put it on the big cable side of the starter relay. but I guess leave it alone if it ain't broke.


I have seen several factory splices on mopars done exactly that way and they were ALWAYS soldered.

in the second picture on the R side I note several corroded male terminals. Those should all be cleaned as well as the others.

I would also clean the female terminals and try closing them a bit with a small flat blade. If they are easily accessible from the backside you can remove them ne at a time for cleaning and then gently squeeze each side to insure a better connection.

Quote
I checked the voltage of the wire in the bulkhead running from the splice with the key ON and it reads 11.3v(firewall side) while the battery reads 12.6v... The voltage of the same wire at the bulkhead on the inside with the key ON reads the same (11.3v)!


the above statement is not clear to me ? I'm assuming this is with the bulkhead plugged together?
I am also assuming this wire is coming from the battery towards the splice
What is the V at the splice itself ?
if it is also 11.3 work back towards to battery.
Your statement indicates a 1.3V drop which is HUGE unless there is a draw pulling the V down or a bad connection not allowing the current to pass thereby causing the V drop.



Run a jumper across the two connections and see what the voltage does. The jumper can run from the splice to where ever the firewall side wire goes. If it goes multiple places the one closest to the BH would be best.
DO monitor the battery voltage while doing these tests. beer




Last edited by TJP; 03/27/24 10:14 PM.
Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: TJP] #3223360
03/28/24 01:51 PM
03/28/24 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by Andrewh
that is a nasty splice.
Quote


Quote
I have seen several factory splices on mopars done exactly that way and they were ALWAYS soldered.
Quote


Yes that is from the factory! It's soldered solid and was wrapped with some sticky tape!

[quote]
in the second picture on the R side I note several corroded male terminals. Those should all be cleaned as well as the others.
Quote

There's a couple that are a bit "hazy" but aren't corroded... They look much dirtier in the picture but are not that bad or preventing good current! There's only one connector there that's corroded! It's green and you can clearly see it in the picture. That connector goes to the 'transmission backup lamp switch'. The other two 'hazy' male terminals are for the 'high beam foot dimmer switch' and 'hazard warning flasher'... I doubt they have anything to do with the overcharging issue... Despite what they look like in the picture or in person they make good contact! Regardless, I didn't take the time on those terminals because they're not associated with the issue... At least I don't think they are!

Quote

Quote
I checked the voltage of the wire in the bulkhead running from the splice with the key ON and it reads 11.3v(firewall side) while the battery reads 12.6v... The voltage of the same wire at the bulkhead on the inside with the key ON reads the same (11.3v)!


the above statement is not clear to me ? I'm assuming this is with the bulkhead plugged together?
I am also assuming this wire is coming from the battery towards the splice
What is the V at the splice itself ?
if it is also 11.3 work back towards to battery.
Your statement indicates a 1.3V drop which is HUGE unless there is a draw pulling the V down or a bad connection not allowing the current to pass thereby causing the V drop.
Quote

Yes, with the bulkhead assembled... As instructed I followed the power wires from the VR and they run into the splice! Out of the 8 wires in the splice only one runs directly into the bulkhead and that's the one I'm referring to(J10A-14RE in the diagram)... From the splice directly to the bulkhead not the battery... That wire runs through the bulkhead into the ignition switch harness where it goes directly to the ignition and is identified as the 'ignition' circuit but it also splits off at the connector and goes down to the number 5 fuse of the fuse block and keeps going into the instrument cluster.
I checked the voltage of that circuit on both sides of the bulkhead connector and the voltage is the same on each side which to me indicates the connection in the bulkhead is making good contact. If it wasn't making good contact one side would have a different voltage right? Could it be something in the cluster drawing voltage??? Could this be the issue??
I hope that clears it up!



Quote
Run a jumper across the two connections and see what the voltage does. The jumper can run from the splice to where ever the firewall side wire goes. If it goes multiple places the one closest to the BH would be best.
DO monitor the battery voltage while doing these tests. beer[quote]

I already wrapped up the splice! I don't have time to do this test, I need to get to work so I'll do it some other time...

IMG_20240328_100650020.jpgIMG_20240328_100810209.jpgIMG_20240328_100842514.jpgIMG_20240328_100907178.jpg
Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: TJP] #3223363
03/28/24 01:58 PM
03/28/24 01:58 PM
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Diagram continued...

IMG_20240328_101710564.jpgIMG_20240328_101723314.jpgIMG_20240328_105320143.jpgIMG_20240328_105507537.jpg
Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: B300 VanDanage] #3223383
03/28/24 04:00 PM
03/28/24 04:00 PM
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Watch video 1 VIDEO 1

pay particular attention around 4-6 minutes where he demonstrates little resistance but that is with no load and the commentary that follows.

video #2 VIDEO 2

this is a very simplified example to locate voltage drops. There are more videos on you tube

i would start at the battery. Using you're schematic follow the Voltage from the battery checking EACH connection along the way.

the + battery cable carries the V to the Starter motor lug. Sometimes a separate wire off the battery carries the ACC /RUN/lights etc to the starter relay. other cases the wire comes from the starter motor lug .

There is normally a fusible link between the relay and bulkhead connector.

out of the bulkhead to one side of the ammeter

out the other side to your Splice.
out of the splice to the various components some of which are live all the time (lights) others through the ignition switch. MOST but not all will go through the fuse box.
This is difficult at best but Tenacity will win.

I alos wanted to comment on the bulkhead connections. on the male tabs some are visibly making connection evidenced by the female terminal scrape marks. others are not showing those marks that I could see
beer

Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: TJP] #3223413
03/28/24 07:26 PM
03/28/24 07:26 PM
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I agree, voltage the same on both sides of the connector means it isn't that connector.
it could be the ignition switch, as you noted due to the voltage drop there.
I would see if the switch has any resistance between the terminals disconnected from power.
you also might pull the neutral safety from the starter relay and test the voltage in start and see if that is down too.

Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: Andrewh] #3223456
03/28/24 10:45 PM
03/28/24 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrewh
I agree, voltage the same on both sides of the connector means it isn't that connector.
it could be the ignition switch, as you noted due to the voltage drop there.
I would see if the switch has any resistance between the terminals disconnected from power.
you also might pull the neutral safety from the starter relay and test the voltage in start and see if that is down too.


I would be tempted to jumper those terminals on the switch and see what the voltage does while the switch is on as it was in his previous tests. If it magically jumps up the switch is likely the culprit. DO VERIFY the terminals at the connector are not the issue.

I'm not sure the resistance check will tell him much as there is no "LOAD" on the switch, so it may indicate little to no resistance but may not be able to pass the current needed for the load thereby causing the V drop.
keep us posted beer

Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: TJP] #3224222
04/01/24 12:31 PM
04/01/24 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TJP



Watch video 1 VIDEO 1

pay particular attention around 4-6 minutes where he demonstrates little resistance but that is with no load and the commentary that follows.

video #2 VIDEO 2

this is a very simplified example to locate voltage drops. There are more videos on you tube

i would start at the battery. Using you're schematic follow the Voltage from the battery checking EACH connection along the way.

the + battery cable carries the V to the Starter motor lug. Sometimes a separate wire off the battery carries the ACC /RUN/lights etc to the starter relay. other cases the wire comes from the starter motor lug .

There is normally a fusible link between the relay and bulkhead connector.

out of the bulkhead to one side of the ammeter

out the other side to your Splice.
out of the splice to the various components some of which are live all the time (lights) others through the ignition switch. MOST but not all will go through the fuse box.
This is difficult at best but Tenacity will win.

I alos wanted to comment on the bulkhead connections. on the male tabs some are visibly making connection evidenced by the female terminal scrape marks. others are not showing those marks that I could see
beer







Thanks for sharing the links to those vids! I understand that those checks need to be done with everything hooked up and under load so that's how I performed them! I haven't had much time to work on the van but I started on it yesterday and I found a spot where I found a 0.8v drop/loss... Assuming I did the voltage check correctly!

I have 3 wires/cables coming off the positive side of the battery...
One cable goes directly to the starter motor and there's a smaller wire that comes off the starter and goes to the relay...

The second wire runs through the bulkhead and into the fuse block and is the 'hazard warning flasher'...

Please refer to the pictures of the diagram for this next circuit!... The third wire(S1-10RE) off the positive side of the battery runs up and goes into a splice which turns into a black wire(R6-10BK), from the splice to a "branched" section of fusible links where the wire turns into a small green wire(J2-18GR) through the fusible link and turns into a Red/black wire(J2B-12RE/BK) which runs into the bulkhead (#24) through the firewall up into the ignition switch harness! From the harness connection turns into a red wire(1-12RE) and goes into the ignition switch! The voltage drop I found is in the section between the splice and the connector(#24) on the interior side of the bulkhead and that's as far as I've gotten... I'm going out there in a minute and will be working on it all day!
Here's a bit of info about the circuit I'm talking about... The section of fusible link(J2-18GR) burnt out a while ago and what I did was install a glass fuse by tapping into the black wire(R6-10BK) right before the 'branch' of fusible links and directly to the red/blk wire(J2B-12RE/BK) that goes into the #24 connector in the bulkhead..... I ran a 'jumper' wire from the splice directly to the wire(J2B-12RE/BK) going into the bulkhead got an even bigger drop of about 1.0volts!....

I've gone and cleaned all the male connectors with sand paper but the female connectors are harder to access! I don't have anything that'll fit in there to clean them out. These terminals are very difficult to pull out of the bulkhead connector and some of them have a rubber plug around the wire so that I can't even insert anything to 'unhook' them from the little tab that locks them in! I feel like I'm just going to end up breaking the plastic!!!

IMG_20240401_082111151.jpgIMG_20240401_082131543.jpgIMG_20240401_082148389.jpgIMG_20240401_082215729.jpg
Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: B300 VanDanage] #3224227
04/01/24 12:37 PM
04/01/24 12:37 PM
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Diagram continued...

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Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: TJP] #3224232
04/01/24 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TJP



I alos wanted to comment on the bulkhead connections. on the male tabs some are visibly making connection evidenced by the female terminal scrape marks. others are not showing those marks that I could see
beer







There is, there's scrape marks on all the connectors!

Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: Andrewh] #3224287
04/01/24 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrewh
I agree, voltage the same on both sides of the connector means it isn't that connector.
it could be the ignition switch, as you noted due to the voltage drop there.
I would see if the switch has any resistance between the terminals disconnected from power.
you also might pull the neutral safety from the starter relay and test the voltage in start and see if that is down too.


I'm confused! How do I do this test?? Using the multimeter probes I'm supposed to make contact between the post on the back of the ignition switch of the 'ignition' circuit to the connector of the harness/bulkhead??? Or am I supposed to make contact between posts on the back of the switch using the probes???

As for the neutral safety switch I do the test on the wire itself after removing it or on the relay?

Sorry, I'm learning!

Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: B300 VanDanage] #3224373
04/01/24 08:22 PM
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sorry, that is actually a few things at once.

pull the neutral safety wire from the relay to prevent the starter from trying to start the van.

the switch has a plug on it, so you can do 1 of 2 things.
you should be able to stick the probe in the back of it, but if you can't, then pull the plug slightly so you can get a probe between the switch and the plug.
so the test will be to see between a ground not on the switch and the ign 1, ign 2, and the other post that goes out what the power drop is if any before you turn the key and after.
so I don't remember the posts that goes out to the bulk head.
but you have start and run on the ignition switch.
both have power going into them.
when you turn the key to start, and hold it, you should be able to test the power out of the switch. same when you leave it in run.

having the neutral safety disconnected prevents you from hanging the starter on the whole time.

Re: Overcharging issues(16.5-17volts) plus! [Re: Andrewh] #3224886
04/03/24 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrewh
sorry, that is actually a few things at once.

pull the neutral safety wire from the relay to prevent the starter from trying to start the van.

the switch has a plug on it, so you can do 1 of 2 things.
you should be able to stick the probe in the back of it, but if you can't, then pull the plug slightly so you can get a probe between the switch and the plug.
so the test will be to see between a ground not on the switch and the ign 1, ign 2, and the other post that goes out what the power drop is if any before you turn the key and after.
so I don't remember the posts that goes out to the bulk head.
but you have start and run on the ignition switch.
both have power going into them.
when you turn the key to start, and hold it, you should be able to test the power out of the switch. same when you leave it in run.

having the neutral safety disconnected prevents you from hanging the starter on the whole time.


Appreciate your help but I'm here for an update and that update is I now have a fuel pump issue! You may have seen the post and once I replace the pump I'm gonna put this wiring thing on hold because I need to start working on replacing my clutch in my truck before the 30 day return window ends incase I have to return something or incase the parts I ordered aren't compatible!
Anyway, I'll be back to resume the search for the voltage drop in about a week or two...

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