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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: Streetwize] #3176597
09/20/23 10:04 AM
09/20/23 10:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,144
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
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Loudoun County, VA
Originally Posted by Streetwize
Are the heads out of the box? I would think milling them to get to a higher compression (I'm assuming you're running race gas anyway) combined with skilled bowl and chamber porting that enhances the mid lift flows would make more torque/hp would help the ET more than a cam swap on your stock heads. From what I've seen it's not too hard to pick up another 10-15 cfm particularly in the .350-.500 range, so IMO that would be the rough equivalent of adding cam lobe "fatness" (as far as cylinder filling) without impacting the seat to seat cam/converter relationship the car already seems to be working well. pulling up the mid-lifts would be closer to making your flat tappet feel more like a roller with no downside.

Bobby - This is what an out-of-the-box Trick Flow chamber & bowl look like

Screenshot 2023-09-20 at 10.02.17 AM.png

2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: gregcharger72] #3176601
09/20/23 10:13 AM
09/20/23 10:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,144
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Brad_Haak  Offline
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Loudoun County, VA
Love the car! Really clean... drool

What's the circumference on the Goodyear radials? The Hoosier 9x30 radials I used to run were available in both 92.5" and 94" (I ran the 92.5").

Your 60-ft seems "soft" to me, although I'm not sure what to suggest given what you've described so far.

Our cars are pretty comparable in performance (compared to my last running combination), but mine was pulling low 1.5s when it ran 11.0s at 121 and in the 1.45-1.47 range when it dipped into the 10.5s at 126.


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: Brad_Haak] #3176609
09/20/23 10:39 AM
09/20/23 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Brad,

Yeah I'm still thinking Larry Smith at Flow Tech 2 in NC can still get another 15-20 out of them without going full MW, also getting Larry to port the Intake manifold might get him another tenth or more.


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: Streetwize] #3176875
09/21/23 09:58 AM
09/21/23 09:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline
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Love the car!! Super clean engine compartment and great running relatively mild combo! If you must go faster, I would try a solid roller and dominator.


2 kids and a dog
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: TonyS451] #3176928
09/21/23 12:49 PM
09/21/23 12:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 112
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gregcharger72 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TonyS451
Love the car!! Super clean engine compartment and great running relatively mild combo! If you must go faster, I would try a solid roller and dominator.


Thanks. Don't we all want to go faster laugh
I'm going taking Andy F's suggestion, and buy the 270 heads. I will have them milled a bit and keep the same cam and see where that gets me. Then sell the 240 heads and intake. I'm thinking that may be the best route. Then if I want more then i can add the larger cam.

Last edited by gregcharger72; 09/21/23 02:05 PM.
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: gregcharger72] #3176960
09/21/23 02:45 PM
09/21/23 02:45 PM
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Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
I think that is the most cost effective way to go for a race engine. Especially if you have the right converter and are geared to keep the engine in the 6000 to 7000 rpm range all the way down the track.
Are you going to stay with the 4150 or change to a Dominator? There are Max Wedge intakes for both 4150 and 4500 carbs, but the 4500 setup will make more power. Only issue is that then you'll need to buy a good 1050 Dominator.

Most cost effective way to go would be to buy the 270 heads with the roller cam springs so you're ready for the new roller cam. You'll have to swap your existing flat tappet springs into the 270 heads for now. But then when you're ready to switch to the roller cam you'll have the parts you need.

Last edited by AndyF; 09/21/23 05:16 PM.
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: AndyF] #3176979
09/21/23 04:47 PM
09/21/23 04:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,144
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
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Loudoun County, VA
I'm just wondering (out loud, obviously) if the current cam is big enough to take advantage of the TF270. Guess there's only one way to find out...


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: Brad_Haak] #3176990
09/21/23 05:36 PM
09/21/23 05:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,465
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
top fuel
tex013  Offline
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Sydney,Australia
taking the 270 head is the way more bang for buck than a 240 if buying to replace other heads . On my 505ci motor i gained right @ 0.25 ET on my 440ci @ 0.20 give or take . These motors had been running CNC stealth head . I did have a Super Victor stock port that i opened up to max wedge . No other change to motors . Same intake , carb , rocker gear , cam , headers etc . This is a pump gas street exhaust motor .
The 440 went from 10.89 to 10.70 . With a 0.520 nett lift sft
The 505 went from 10.50 to 10.25 . With a 0.600 nett lift sft

Tex

Last edited by tex013; 09/21/23 05:39 PM.

New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: AndyF] #3177060
09/21/23 08:40 PM
09/21/23 08:40 PM
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gregcharger72 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by AndyF
I think that is the most cost effective way to go for a race engine. Especially if you have the right converter and are geared to keep the engine in the 6000 to 7000 rpm range all the way down the track.
Are you going to stay with the 4150 or change to a Dominator? There are Max Wedge intakes for both 4150 and 4500 carbs, but the 4500 setup will make more power. Only issue is that then you'll need to buy a good 1050 Dominator.

Most cost effective way to go would be to buy the 270 heads with the roller cam springs so you're ready for the new roller cam. You'll have to swap your existing flat tappet springs into the 270 heads for now. But then when you're ready to switch to the roller cam you'll have the parts you need.


I agree . The is plan to get the trick flow 4500 manifold. and send the 4150 carb back to pro systems for modification to a duel pattern throttle plate; only because don't want to remake the air cleaner assembly that matches the hood scoop. This can snowball very quickly.

Last edited by gregcharger72; 09/21/23 08:57 PM.
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: gregcharger72] #3177103
09/21/23 10:16 PM
09/21/23 10:16 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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The dual pattern 4150 is a good idea but you have to make sure it seals up all the way around. Some 4500 intakes are opened up too far for the 4150 base plate. I used to make a 1/2 inch adapter that sealed a 4150 dual pattern carb to a 4500 intake. It had 7 degree taper in the bores and anti-reversion lip on the backside. It worked really well but not very people were interested in it so I stopped making them.

AR372d (Large).jpgAR372a (Large).jpg
Last edited by AndyF; 09/21/23 10:20 PM.
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: AndyF] #3177114
09/21/23 11:48 PM
09/21/23 11:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264
New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline
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Chargerfan68  Offline
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New York, USA
Andy, did you ever do back-to-back dyno testing with just adding your anti-reversion spacer plate? Curious because on a 498” lowdeck stroker, I did back-to-back dyno of a 1/2” anti-reversion spacer and I picked up 11hp with just that change.

Thx

And yes…..absolutely beautiful charger to the OP


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: AndyF] #3177135
09/22/23 07:55 AM
09/22/23 07:55 AM
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gregcharger72 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by AndyF
The dual pattern 4150 is a good idea but you have to make sure it seals up all the way around. Some 4500 intakes are opened up too far for the 4150 base plate. I used to make a 1/2 inch adapter that sealed a 4150 dual pattern carb to a 4500 intake. It had 7 degree taper in the bores and anti-reversion lip on the backside. It worked really well but not very people were interested in it so I stopped making them.


That's a shame it's a really cool piece , do you have any left I'll take one!

Last edited by gregcharger72; 09/22/23 08:31 AM.
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: gregcharger72] #3177145
09/22/23 09:01 AM
09/22/23 09:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,144
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
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Loudoun County, VA
Originally Posted by gregcharger72
Originally Posted by AndyF
The dual pattern 4150 is a good idea but you have to make sure it seals up all the way around. Some 4500 intakes are opened up too far for the 4150 base plate. I used to make a 1/2 inch adapter that sealed a 4150 dual pattern carb to a 4500 intake. It had 7 degree taper in the bores and anti-reversion lip on the backside. It worked really well but not very people were interested in it so I stopped making them.


That's a shame it's a really cool piece , do you have any left I'll take one!

I think I got the last one... whistling


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: Brad_Haak] #3177174
09/22/23 11:17 AM
09/22/23 11:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
I think that is right. I had an extra kicking around my shop for a few years and then I think I sent it to Brad since he was going to run a 4150 on a 4500 intake.

Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: AndyF] #3177328
09/22/23 10:57 PM
09/22/23 10:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,144
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
super stock
Brad_Haak  Offline
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Correct, but I haven't been able to locate an M1 RB 4500 intake that wasn't hacked on by somebody else... or ridiculously overpriced


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question. [Re: gregcharger72] #3177357
09/23/23 05:25 AM
09/23/23 05:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid Offline
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Originally Posted by gregcharger72
Originally Posted by B1duster
How many runs on the short block ? What’s in it ?
Have you thought about adding a stroker kit and using the top end you have ?

So my thinking or wondering is, how much horsepower is left in the cylinder heads? What is the most cost effective way to get where I want to be? Perhaps I should have opened the thread with that question.
The combination is a 3700 lbs. with me in it.72 charger. 4.30 gears . 30x9 slick .5200 flash stall converter, footbrake car. The engine is a .030 over 440 with flat top pistons, total seal gapless top rings. 11.7 to 1 compression..ootb 240 heads
deep port match trick flow intake by Hughes engines. 1.6 rockers. a 1000 cfm pro systems calibrated carb. A Hughes engines flat tappet cam 254 int,260 exh @ .050 . 640 lift int 656 exh. My best et in very good weather is a10.57 @ 127mph. avg et is 10.73 @125. The engine has 110 runs on it. I'm a lot closer to 10.5 index than the 11.5 index. Can I get 40 hp with a cam change?


plz to gimme car laugh

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