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Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: JERICOGTX] #3119248
02/06/23 09:36 AM
02/06/23 09:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,824
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
I made my own K memeber. Uses stock lower ball joints with the arms cut off. I then welded an arm onto the spindle. Also uses stock spindles, lower control arms, and upper A arms.


Nice job.Yours gives a good picture of how far out the tie rod pivot locations have been moved from the stock rear steer location.
Doug

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dizuster] #3119269
02/06/23 11:33 AM
02/06/23 11:33 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Originally Posted by dizuster
You should read up on Ackeeman angle before you go giving any more bad advice to people about flipping the tie rods to the front with stock parts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

It creates a major toe problem with very little steering wheel input.


I know exactly what Ackerman is, Maybe You should actually make one up like I DID that had NO problem steering at rest or at speed. Stay in the kitchen if..
I haven’t looked at everyone of these aftermarket K frames but the few I’ve looked at have severe problems and wouldn’t have under my car at any speed. A friends car backed up in the driveway and sheared off a 3/4 #8 bolt in the lower control arm because of the binding.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/06/23 11:35 AM.
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: JERICOGTX] #3119272
02/06/23 11:42 AM
02/06/23 11:42 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
I made my own K memeber. Uses stock lower ball joints with the arms cut off. I then welded an arm onto the spindle. Also uses stock spindles, lower control arms, and upper A arms.

Looks nice but do me one favor, go to the junk yard or parking lot, look under all cars and trucks at the racks and it’s relationship to the spindle steering arms. Let us know what you find out.

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: cudaman1969] #3119274
02/06/23 12:01 PM
02/06/23 12:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,824
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Originally Posted by dizuster
You should read up on Ackeeman angle before you go giving any more bad advice to people about flipping the tie rods to the front with stock parts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

It creates a major toe problem with very little steering wheel input.


I know exactly what Ackerman is, Maybe You should actually make one up like I DID that had NO problem steering at rest or at speed. Stay in the kitchen if..
I haven’t looked at everyone of these aftermarket K frames but the few I’ve looked at have severe problems and wouldn’t have under my car at any speed. A friends car backed up in the driveway and sheared off a 3/4 #8 bolt in the lower control arm because of the binding.


Then how did it "magically" have correct Ackerman with the outer tie rod pivots located over a few inches to far inboard in the stock location? If the wheels are straight, it won't have any issue. The problem occurs when the wheel is turned. The further it is turned, the greater the toe-in change. So on a normal pass, no big deal. Get it out of shape going at speed and you would've found out. One thing we do agree on. Many of the aftermarket K frame and steering systems are not anywhere close in correct geometry. When I questioned QA1 reps last year about bump steer correction, I got the deer the headlamps look. We had also previosly contacted them about the issue. I was told that I didn't understand bump steer. Then a month or so later they printed a bulliten with the same fix I came up with. Not a pissing match here. Just trying to give the original poster a good working knowledge of what's correct.
Doug

Last edited by dvw; 02/06/23 12:02 PM.
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dvw] #3119297
02/06/23 01:28 PM
02/06/23 01:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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MN
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JERICOGTX Offline
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MN
Originally Posted by dvw
Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
I made my own K memeber. Uses stock lower ball joints with the arms cut off. I then welded an arm onto the spindle. Also uses stock spindles, lower control arms, and upper A arms.


Nice job.Yours gives a good picture of how far out the tie rod pivot locations have been moved from the stock rear steer location.
Doug


Basically, you should be able to draw a line from the outer tie rod point, through the lower ball joint, and it should aim to the center of the rear end housing.

Is what I made ideal? Of course not. The rack has to be forward enough to clear the oil pan. Make the arms long enough, and turning radius would be nothing. I know for sure, with 5* of caster, I can drive the car with one finger. Zero issues so far to 138mph.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: JERICOGTX] #3119361
02/06/23 05:03 PM
02/06/23 05:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
when i fabricated the front suspension on my "eternal project", i knew virtually nothing about independent suspensions, other than correct geometry was needed if it were to work properly.
i then bought many books and studied design and theory to get somewhat of an idea what i was in for. this took approximately three years, until i felt comfortable i could design and fabricate a suspension system that would work.
i then built a full size mock-up on a sheet of 1/4" paneling, just to visualize how my design would work in real life, before any metal was cut.
the mock-up showed less than 1/8" total toe change from full bump to total rebound in approximately 7" of total travel, so i felt comfortable with that.
i used the paneling mock-up to figure out the proper placement of the control arm pivot points, as well as the proper placement of the rack i was going to use.
i fabbed the attachment cross member first, making it a little thicker than it really needed to be, as well as making the lower control arm mounting point[s] way more robust than necessary, because i don't want this thing to break in use.
that added a little unnecessary extra weight, but i think that will prove to be extra durability in use, so i can put up with that.
i wished i had weighed the individual components, but i did not do that. i will weigh them when i get to disassemble everything for paint, and write that info down for future reference.
beer

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