Infrared exhaust temp gun
#2019592
02/25/16 05:34 PM
02/25/16 05:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505 TN
SCATPACK 1
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
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IF you are using an infrared exhaust temp gun to check the headers; Do you check it right after you make a run? What RPM do you check them at? What header temp would be ideal for the perfectly jetted carb? I am assuming there is a percentage you want each header tube to read in relation to the other header tubes? How do you use yours? thanks Jerry
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2019598
02/25/16 05:43 PM
02/25/16 05:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
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I just bought one of these to ease tuning with alcohol. O2 works ok with gas but I think this will help more and it records the run
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2019823
02/25/16 10:29 PM
02/25/16 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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A gun will only help you in idle areas of the fuel curve. Unless you can drive under load with a guy reading the gun in a dynamic state. Reading header temps with a gun after a run will tell you nothing... other than if you have a stone dead hole.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2019837
02/25/16 10:54 PM
02/25/16 10:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,068 Mo.
racerx
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,068
Mo.
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I just bought one of these to ease tuning with alcohol. O2 works ok with gas but I think this will help more and it records the run pitts is this for the new small tire car if so, what fuel r you planning with nos?...........Thaxs
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2019838
02/25/16 10:54 PM
02/25/16 10:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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IF you are using an infrared exhaust temp gun to check the headers; Do you check it right after you make a run? What RPM do you check them at? What header temp would be ideal for the perfectly jetted carb? I am assuming there is a percentage you want each header tube to read in relation to the other header tubes? How do you use yours? thanks Jerry You cant get a good reading with a temp gun.. as soon as you let off the pedal its cooling.. on the race car I run 8 egts with a data logger... if you can log the data you would like in the 1350- 1450 range at full power.. this can change some... I take ALL my reading exactly 1" from the head surface.. have been reading at that point even when I was working in the exhaust lab so all of us would get the same data.. I finally got that as a standard point at work.. took a while to finally get everyone to agree to a set point.. when I say 1" I measure that with a caliper so each is right on the money(on the inside of the tube to the tip of the probe.. thats where the reading is taken)
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/25/16 10:59 PM.
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: racerx]
#2019845
02/25/16 11:03 PM
02/25/16 11:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
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I just bought one of these to ease tuning with alcohol. O2 works ok with gas but I think this will help more and it records the run pitts is this for the new small tire car if so, what fuel r you planning with nos?...........Thaxs I bought this for my black bracket Duster and have another Racepak coming tomorrow for the small tire car. I will be running VP to start in the small tire car but not sure what octane yet as I haven't figured out numbers yet. They sell VP by the gallon or barrel at my local track.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2019904
02/26/16 12:25 AM
02/26/16 12:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,068 Mo.
racerx
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,068
Mo.
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2020087
02/26/16 12:17 PM
02/26/16 12:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714
Central TEXAS!!!!
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When I have a engine on my dyno, I DO NOT use EGT’s to tune a engine. I use BSFC and O2 sensors (with ALL fuels) but even with that, I pull the plugs ever time I make a timing change. I use EGT probes to tell fuel distribution and other things, I never use or heavily rely on EGT as A/F Ratio determination Using the EGT probes for fuel distribution studies is their greatest value. You can't ask some other racer what EGT is best for you . example= no matter how well you tune a 9:1 normally aspirated engine, its EGT's will be higher than a similar properly tuned engine with 15:1 Compression Ratio . ....no matter what you do , the 9:1 CR engine is going to have higher EGTs because it will waste heat out exhaust more than a 15:1 engine, or any CR higher than the 9:1 CR reference point .
If you asked a group of racers that all had their engines perfectly tuned and maxed out with the best possible ignition timing curve and A/F Ratio .... one racer might say 1350 deg F , another might say 1250 deg F , another might say 1150 deg F, another might say 1050 deg F .....they could all be correct and have the very same A/F Ratios .....the varying EGTs depending primarily upon Compression Ratio, Volumetric Efficiency percent % , Combustion Chamber/Piston top design and camshaft design.
Another thing you have to watch out for is where are you placing the EGT probe?? 1-at 12 o'clock or so ... 2-How far away from heads exh port flange ??? 3-How deep is the EGT probe protruding into header pipe diameter ???? 4-EGT probe type and response time
all these factors greatly influence EGT temps making it very much impossible to directly compare EGTs between racers if no standards are set to probe placement
So basically , if you walk around the pits at a National Event and ask the SS racers that have CR from 9 to 11:1 mostly , they'll tell you 1250 to 1350 EGT and maybe a few at 1450
you ask the ProStock and Comp guys with 16+:1 CR they'll tell you 1000 to 1150 deg F maybe some of the very large Mountain type engines with HiCr tell you 850 to 1000 deg F EGTs
Hi Compression Ratio = Lower EGT temps
Lo Compression Ratio = Higher EGT temps
Correct ignition advance(32+ to 40+ ign deg range)= Lower EGT temps
Wrong ignition advance ( below >25 or so deg range)= High EGT temps ..... burn slower and later in stroke , continuing to burn while exhausting and if severe...cycling/snowballing into rising coolant temperatures, preignition, then detonation.
bottom line is you need to tune your car by reading plugs and adjusting from there.
Joe
sorry for the rant
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2020174
02/26/16 01:47 PM
02/26/16 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,022 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,022
Tulsa OK
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Is it still a good indicator to use for cylinder balance/distribution?
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2020178
02/26/16 01:52 PM
02/26/16 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Is it still a good indicator to use for cylinder balance/distribution? I just use the EGTs for intake work.. as the others have said.. it varies on egt... just use the MPH and watch the plugs then see what the O2 says for WOT tuning
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2020180
02/26/16 01:54 PM
02/26/16 01:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
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The O2 readings from the Racepak worked VERY good with my pump gas combos. Now that I switched over to alcohol and even after switching the Racepak over to read alcohol I'm missing something on the read-outs. I leaned out my carb last October to try something and even with the colder temps it loved it and ran great. Lots of my Friends now run alcohol and suggest I aim for 1150 degrees and forget about it till I have a BIG weather change. Alcohol is more forgiving.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2020188
02/26/16 02:02 PM
02/26/16 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,022 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Tulsa OK
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One of the guys I talk with about my EFI setup recomends I go with 8 EGTs vs another 02 sensor. It costs a little more money to do that but it gives me more data, but that data needs to be useful to do me any good haha.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2020202
02/26/16 02:14 PM
02/26/16 02:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
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More forgiving in what way? Rich is rich and most alky guys run their stuff WAY rich. It just doesn't show up on the plugs or out the exhaust as being rich Its way more forgiving as far as small race day weather changes. Humidity affects it more than anything else once you have the tune right. And you are right about many being rich.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2020214
02/26/16 02:35 PM
02/26/16 02:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
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I always hear that, but I don't buy it. From my own experience and observations, a PROPERLY TUNED alky car is no more forgiving of weather than gas. Meaning if the tune is spot on, weather affects both, but as stated, most alky tunes are not sharp.
Good friends with Mike Laws, owner of BLP. His sentiments are the same as mine When I took a 2 day head porting class from Darrin Morgan he HATED alcohol and said a properly tuned race gas engine will out perform one on alcohol 9 times out of 10. But for me in a bracket car its a perfect fit. Racing as often as I do high priced racing gas would kill my budget. In my limited run small tire car no problem. Round robin is so easy with alcohol. Make a pass, and turn off the water pump and fan to build heat, less battery drain in the pits cooling, and 165 dollars a barrel.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Infrared exhaust temp gun
[Re: sr4440]
#2020230
02/26/16 02:53 PM
02/26/16 02:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505 TN
SCATPACK 1
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
|
When I have a engine on my dyno, I DO NOT use EGT’s to tune a engine. I use BSFC and O2 sensors (with ALL fuels) but even with that, I pull the plugs ever time I make a timing change. I use EGT probes to tell fuel distribution and other things, I never use or heavily rely on EGT as A/F Ratio determination Using the EGT probes for fuel distribution studies is their greatest value. You can't ask some other racer what EGT is best for you . example= no matter how well you tune a 9:1 normally aspirated engine, its EGT's will be higher than a similar properly tuned engine with 15:1 Compression Ratio . ....no matter what you do , the 9:1 CR engine is going to have higher EGTs because it will waste heat out exhaust more than a 15:1 engine, or any CR higher than the 9:1 CR reference point .
If you asked a group of racers that all had their engines perfectly tuned and maxed out with the best possible ignition timing curve and A/F Ratio .... one racer might say 1350 deg F , another might say 1250 deg F , another might say 1150 deg F, another might say 1050 deg F .....they could all be correct and have the very same A/F Ratios .....the varying EGTs depending primarily upon Compression Ratio, Volumetric Efficiency percent % , Combustion Chamber/Piston top design and camshaft design.
Another thing you have to watch out for is where are you placing the EGT probe?? 1-at 12 o'clock or so ... 2-How far away from heads exh port flange ??? 3-How deep is the EGT probe protruding into header pipe diameter ???? 4-EGT probe type and response time
all these factors greatly influence EGT temps making it very much impossible to directly compare EGTs between racers if no standards are set to probe placement
So basically , if you walk around the pits at a National Event and ask the SS racers that have CR from 9 to 11:1 mostly , they'll tell you 1250 to 1350 EGT and maybe a few at 1450
you ask the ProStock and Comp guys with 16+:1 CR they'll tell you 1000 to 1150 deg F maybe some of the very large Mountain type engines with HiCr tell you 850 to 1000 deg F EGTs
Hi Compression Ratio = Lower EGT temps
Lo Compression Ratio = Higher EGT temps
Correct ignition advance(32+ to 40+ ign deg range)= Lower EGT temps
Wrong ignition advance ( below >25 or so deg range)= High EGT temps ..... burn slower and later in stroke , continuing to burn while exhausting and if severe...cycling/snowballing into rising coolant temperatures, preignition, then detonation.
bottom line is you need to tune your car by reading plugs and adjusting from there.
Joe
sorry for the rant Joe Thanks for the Rant. That is exactly the info I was looking for. The reason I asked about the infrared gun in the first place, the last race I went to, I saw several Chevy guys using the temp guns on the headers and when I asked why they said to determine if it was jetted correctly. I thought they knew something I did not. But thanks for the above info as it clears up a lot of things and re affirms that I have been doing it the right way all along. thanks Jerry
Old Geezer Racing
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