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Valve Lash Tech Talk #1277696
08/01/12 03:11 PM
08/01/12 03:11 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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FWIW, since I had a bunch of notes on this stuff and figured it might be of interest to some others.

Ever wonder what difference all those different lash settings make when looking at solid-lifter (flat or roller) cams? Here's a list of different lash settings and how they effect the seat timing for any given cam. I'm listing the duration points at both SAE (.006" valve lift) and "actual seat" (at the point where the lash is reduced to zero) since I've seen both used.

Lash --- 1.5 Lobe Lift --- 1.6 Lobe Lift
--------- SAE (Seat) ------ SAE (Seat)
.016" --- .0147" (.0107") - .0137" (.0100")
.018" --- .0160" (.0120") - .0150" (.0112")
.020" --- .0173" (.0133") - .0162" (.0125")
.022" --- .0187" (.0147") - .0175" (.0138")
.024" --- .0200" (.0160") - .0187" (.0150")
.026" --- .0213" (.0173") - .0200" (.0163")
.026" --- .0227" (.0187") - .0212" (.0175")

Does this really make much difference? Well, if two cams both share the same advertised specs at .020" of 290* and one is designed to run at .016" lash and the other is designed for .026", the SAE duration for the tight-lash grind is likely to be 300-302* where as the looser-lash grind is going to come in around 288*. So, yeah, I'd say that 12-14* difference in seat timing is going to be pretty obvious if you compared both cams in the same engine.

How about a cam where the lash ramps have been designed to allow a fair bit of lash adjustment to allow for some tuning? Does changing the lash make much difference to what the engine sees? Here's two examples I picked up from some Cam Doctor data published years ago:

Example 1 is on an intake lobe where the lash was reduced from .018" to .014". How much extra duration resulted?
.006" - 4.6* (SAE)
.020" - 3.4*
.050" - 2.3*
.100" - 1.6*
.200" - 1.2*
.300" - 1.2*
.400" - 1.3*

Example 2 is on an exhaust lobe where the lash was increased from .022" to .028". How much less duration resulted?
.006" - 6.9* (SAE)
.020" - 5.1*
.050" - 3.4*
.100" - 2.5*
.200" - 1.9*
.300" - 1.9*
.400" - 2.2*

In both cases the biggest change in duration was right at the initial opening/closing points, but the amount of effective change tapered off significantly starting above .100" valve lift.

I also wanted to comment on what really happens when cam "designers" start mixing & matching lobe families with dramatically different designed lash specs. I had cam that spec'd out 295/305 @ .020", 265/270 @ .050", 180/178 @ .200" w/ the provided lash settings of .018" intake / .028" exhaust. Anyone want to guess what the actual duration split ended up being at those lash settings? I'll get straight to the point and say that all that additional exhaust duration got "lost" w/ the extra .010" in lash and the split ended up being negative (less exhaust duration than intake) from .020" valve lift on up.


Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: BradH] #1277697
08/01/12 03:22 PM
08/01/12 03:22 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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Nice writeup Brad

Last month I went through the same thing with an MP 528 solid, at the time I concentrated on @ .050 duration and scrawled it on a piece of notebook paper. I seem to recall dropping 8 or 9 degrees @ .050 on that one between zero lash and .028.

I've read the 9 degrees @ .050 is fairly typical but haven't tried it with enough cams to say with any authority.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: ZIPPY] #1277698
08/01/12 03:52 PM
08/01/12 03:52 PM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Ok Brad you have entirely to much time on your hands to think about all that. Ron

Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: 383man] #1277699
08/01/12 04:53 PM
08/01/12 04:53 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Most of this stuff I'd already recorded a long time ago. It was brought back to mind when I was curious how two roller cams of the same lobe family would compare if one 6* smaller at .020" / .050" / .200" was lashed at .018" vs. a 6*-larger one lashed at .026".

Just another one of those "What if... ?" things.

Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: BradH] #1277700
08/02/12 03:35 PM
08/02/12 03:35 PM
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reknapp52 Offline
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When trying different lash settings to fine-tune a cam, what is the most lash you would want to run? I know if you have lash caps they can get to flopping around quite a bit.

Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: reknapp52] #1277701
08/02/12 05:13 PM
08/02/12 05:13 PM
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reynoldsburg,ohio
poppaj Offline
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.030 is about as much as you would want.


AA/NSS 65'Coronet "Whompin Wedge"
Pop & Son Performance 557" B-1 power
John Holt Chassis
Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: reknapp52] #1277702
08/02/12 09:58 PM
08/02/12 09:58 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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LSP Offline
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Quote:

When trying different lash settings to fine-tune a cam, what is the most lash you would want to run? I know if you have lash caps they can get to flopping around quite a bit.




No one can accurately comment on that, the ramps on the cam dictate max lash possible, call the cam grinder and ask them or put a degree wheel on it.

Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: reknapp52] #1277703
08/03/12 01:14 AM
08/03/12 01:14 AM
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Quote:

When trying different lash settings to fine-tune a cam, what is the most lash you would want to run? I know if you have lash caps they can get to flopping around quite a bit.


If it is a loose lash cam, .025 or so I'll tighten them upto .010, no looser than .006 from the card settings. If it is a tight lash cam .016 or tighter I'll try up to .006 tighter, no more than that hot I'll go up to .004 looser on them hot


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: Cab_Burge] #1277704
08/03/12 01:33 AM
08/03/12 01:33 AM
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Romeo MI
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I've been running .010 less than the card shows(hot)
for 4 years now.. thats on the intake

Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1277705
08/03/12 01:53 AM
08/03/12 01:53 AM
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SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED Offline
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Not sure if any numbers under .100 change anything in power production .
I believe the minimal amount of duration shown in lash changes has less effect than the change in cam timing itself. looser means less duration tighter a bit more but it also changes valve opening points hence the powerband.


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Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: HEMIFRED] #1277706
08/03/12 10:54 AM
08/03/12 10:54 AM
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nc
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emarine01 Offline
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I found that running the intake lash .008 tight on a .020 spec with an increase in rocker ratio from 1.5 to 1.6 is like splitting the difference to the next size larger cam, seems to work out better with rollers

Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1277707
08/03/12 03:12 PM
08/03/12 03:12 PM
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Quote:

I've been running .010 less than the card shows(hot)
for 4 years now.. thats on the intake



I`ve never run a tight lash cam as all of mine have been calling for .024-.028 hot and I always end up around .020 hot(from a .014-.015 cold setting)and have never had failures or isses so far.........


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Re: Valve Lash Tech Talk [Re: HEMIFRED] #1277708
08/07/12 11:02 AM
08/07/12 11:02 AM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
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Quote:

Not sure if any numbers under .100 change anything in power production .



Not HUGE differences, but I've seen close to a 10 HP change from "loose" to "tight" lash settings.







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