440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
#1215020
04/12/12 09:41 PM
04/12/12 09:41 PM
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Posts: 10,011 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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I have had a number of intake rockers fail since I bought these heads. All of the intake rockers hammer against the C clip that retains them next to the exhaust rocker. This wears out the C clip and ruins the needle bearing cage, then starts to eat itself. The bearings are ruined, along with the shaft they ride on and the c clips. I called Jesel and they new what I was talking about with out much explanation. It was suggested that I try and use some form of washer instead of the C clips. The washer would act as a spacer on both sides of the rocker body. So this is what I came up with. A search of McMaster Carr came up with the washers in the picture. They came in at .060 and I had .125 room. Perfect fit, as I figure I need .005 for clearance. The two issues I encountered were the bolt head on the outside of the intake rocker had to be sanded down to give clearance between it and the washer. The other issue was a little grinding for clearance on the inboard side of the rocker for the edge of the washer. Came out to .005 clearance after install.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: gregsdart]
#1215022
04/12/12 09:49 PM
04/12/12 09:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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gregsdart
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On the right side of the photo you can see where I had to grind a little on the rocker so the washer would clear.
Last edited by gregsdart; 04/13/12 12:10 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: gregsdart]
#1215024
04/13/12 03:22 PM
04/13/12 03:22 PM
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440Jim
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Quote:
All of the intake rockers hammer against the C clip that retains them next to the exhaust rocker. This wears out the C clip and ruins the needle bearing cage, then starts to eat itself.
I think that will cure the problem. It that 0.005" the total clearance or each side of the rocker? It seems a little tight for metal expansion with temperature but it might be enough. How much clearance did the Jessel clips have?
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: gregsdart]
#1215026
04/13/12 05:21 PM
04/13/12 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,930 A shed in England
Tig
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master
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Just my . I had the same problem, 300 + passes and a few hundred street miles saw the circlip eat into the bearing cage. I bought another set of rockers whilst I had the original set reconditioned. The new ones had a different finish, I think "tumbled" is the term. These seem to be way more durable as I've probably doubled the above with no issues so far I doubt it's anything to do with the finish though
Last edited by Tig; 04/13/12 05:38 PM.
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: rickraw]
#1215028
04/13/12 09:28 PM
04/13/12 09:28 PM
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Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl.
dusturbd340W5
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for that kind of money I would be looking at Jesel to fix there problem.
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#1215029
04/13/12 09:56 PM
04/13/12 09:56 PM
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Bigcube
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I have never heard of a problem similar to this with Jesel rockers. Makes me wonder what is different in your combo that would induce this? Maybe something is causing too much side pressure in your combo? Seems very odd to me. Eliminating side to side movement will stop any banging against the clip but it begs the question why is that an issue on yours and no others?
Jim
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: Bigcube]
#1215031
04/13/12 11:03 PM
04/13/12 11:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Two of us in this thread have the same issue, so I am sure there are plenty more out there. It looks like two things are wrong. The same metal, .steel, is used for the C clip and bearing cage. The other problem is that the bearings were installed on all the rockers with too much side clearance. I didn't measure it, but it has to be around .020 to .030. That is a lot of room. Another thing comes to mind as well. If there is flex in the rocker and its shaft, and you can count on that, it is possible the rockers get forced toward the inside which would cycle back and forth with each valve event. I noticed that the individual shafts have marks on them where they contact the mounting bar. Just like cap walk in a block. Makes me wonder if .005 is enough clearance.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: gregsdart]
#1215032
04/13/12 11:35 PM
04/13/12 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
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that's actually a pretty common problem. the Chevy guy's have the same problems on the Big Chief headed motors due to the side loading. i know a number of guys that switched to T&D's and the problems went away. as far as the .005" of clearance. it might be enough, but personally i'd want a little more than that to be on the safe side. maybe more like .007-.008 per rocker.
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: Performance Only]
#1215033
04/14/12 06:44 AM
04/14/12 06:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,930 A shed in England
Tig
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master
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The 2nd set has been going for 6 seasons now and no problems. They're slightly different in design, maybe they fixed the problem?
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: Performance Only]
#1215034
04/14/12 06:53 AM
04/14/12 06:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Thanks for the input, Dan. Got any ideas on a little smaller washer or shim? The dimensions need to be ID 9/16, OD .750 to 1.1. ,thickness .055 to .057. One other question- Can these heads be converted to T&D after being milled for the Jesel stuff? I suppose a ball end mill could be used to change the bar that is bolted to the head? I am definitely tired of this, and wouldn't mind changing the ratios and cam. Anybody that has this setup, I strongly urge you to pull the intake rockers off the shaft and inspect the C clips and the shaft they run on. The inboard side intake bearing surface next to the exhuast rocker will show scuffing if they are starting to fail. You don't want to run all that trash into the motor like I did. Luckily all of the needles and cage fragments were in the pockets around the lifters.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 440-1 jesel valvetrain fix, I hope!
[Re: gregsdart]
#1215035
04/14/12 12:16 PM
04/14/12 12:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 795 Glendale Az
Darryls-Demon
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super stock
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Glendale Az
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I'am using T@Ds on my W2 heads, I have almost 2500 street miles and 15 1/4 mile pass on the motor and the rockers look good. But I'am running a small solid roller cam and shifting at only 6500RPMs
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