Picture Thread - Track Racing Mopars!

Hey, I don't see a thread here for photos of your Mopars...

...Let's see them!

I don't track a Mopar myself, but here are some good pics of my brother's stock '68 RoadRunner. Two seasons so far and he's improving nicely..

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...e252b1dfd6b3956c46fdb3b9338ed7b&f=30

Is he getting ready to audition for a spot in the Joey Chitwood Thrill show?

Sorry, just kidding, everybody has to start somewhere. .

I really need to get mine out to go run it. I'm hoping to hit an Autocross next Spring.

Earlier this year on the Zandvoort Circuit on the westcoast of the Netherlands;

Get a spoiler on that car.

I didn't experience much grip issues at that one time at the circuit... except for that one time during the first lap where I missed a corner...

Then you need to go faster.

With your much improved front spoiler, and if I remember correctly, your heavy rear fuel system, and med size tires, I would think some additional rear down force would be a worthy goal.
Put you are behind the wheel, and I am on a keyboard, so

I'm 'working' on a the speed part; Aluminium heads and a roller cam are planned updates.
But brakes are an issue as well. They work perfectly fine on the street and highway, but on the circuit I found out rather quickly I needed better brake-pads.

Would like to add some unobtrusive side spoilers and perhaps a trunk spoiler too, if I find one prized 'friendly'.

Here's me in my 70 'Cuda.

408ci small block, , Tremec 5-speed, Hotchkis suspension.

At Thruxton circuit , UK

Dang, that looks great!
Jeff

What is your rear suspension layout?
Nice Car.

Rear suspension is

Standard width 8 3/4 axle
Hotchkis leaf springs and shackles
Hotchkis sway bar
Hotchkis adjustable shocks
Dr Diff disc brake kit

I did have 1.5" lowering blocks in there , but the driveshaft would contact the tunnel near the rear yoke.

I only finished building the car in August, so there's still some development to do.

Jobs for the winter:
Raise the tunnel a little and reinstall lowering blocks
test with grippier tyres and install panhard rod / watts linkage if necessary
install some anti-tramp shocks or links on the axle.

Thank you.

Seems back in the day after trying both, the factory teams favored panhard over the watts if I remember correctly, for what's worth, and not sure why.

What TB and sway bar are you running?.

And nice to to see a passionate mopar racer in that car.

Hi jcc glad you like it !

Torsion Bars are Hotchkis 1.1"
Front sway Bar is Hotchkis 1.25"

Here is a couple of many from our track days at Willow Springs. Event is put on by Tim Herren of All Time Racing. Great time I have been going for over a decade.(Wow that was fast) here is a Facebook page with more pics.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/228987234148210/?ref=bookmarks

Couple more from Willowsprings.

Matt Snowball, did you have to modify the Tremec 5 speed at all to get it to shift faster? Just curious, mine shifts kinda slow and I've heard others say the same.

Hi Prosport

The trans seems to shift very well. It's my first time with a large 5-speed, so I don't have much to compare it to, but I've had no problems with it . I'm shifting reasonably quickly but am not rushing it.

Matt

Those wing cars look to be smaller than the E-bodies. Looks like a lot of fun.

Matt Snowball -- Very nice car! MoPower to ya!

Have 2020 Willow Springs dates been announced yet?

Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 8 AM – 5 PM PDT

https://www.facebook.com/events/426122428068314/

https://www.facebook.com/willowspri...wC3iojU6bmukHfMmeT95Pa1aKhMB5iaRM4udPRl3

67Satisfaction
Your enthusiasm for corner carving is wonderful.
I could type you a book to help you but i will offer you offline tech support if you desire. PM me

I had a lot of help getting my cars to survive laps from very talented people
Do not over tire your car...both cars ran 16x8 wheels 26 inch tall 10 inch wide tires...

Here is the Charger R/T links for when we tracked the car.
Charger R/T hot laps #1
There is lots of good info in there
Here is the 2nd year where the car ran sub 2.5 minute laps which gets the lap time watchers a whole lot to talk about
Charger R/T hot laps #2

And then there was this
What a wicked car

"Do not over tire your car.."

We have been progressively "over tiring" our cars for the past 50+ years I been driving/building them.

Care to share why to stop now in a paragraph or two?

Speaking of tires...

So Tom Quad changed his name again, now he is "ThermoQuad" ??

Some of the cars I'm known for......

That does seem an odd choice.

No response from Tom Thermoquad?

I run 255-50-16 BFG G-FORCE SPORT COMP-2 on 16x8 minilite rims... for track time lapping sessions... The tires aren't bad, but against softer sticky tires (Hoosiers, etc) they loose lots of cornering time. In my opinion, a good common size tire today would be 275-35-18 multiple brands and 200 TW... just get at least a 9" (5" backspace) wide rim, or better yet 10" (5.5" back space).

Another easy choice would be 275-40-17 tires (a few available at 200 TW)... and mount them on the YearOne 17x9 rims... front and rear will clear ... speaking of all e and b- bodies.

I don't understand the claim of "over-tire".
I know what he meant but how is it a problem to have wide tires? If the sidewall is short enough to provide good feedback, where is the problem?

The Dodge team tried the watts and switched the panhard after a few races. Plymouth team ran panhards from the start. With all the teething pains of new cars in a new series, the simpler panhard system was one less thing to go wrong in set up, tuning, and longevity.

Regarding over tiring cars, its been a common trend for decades and is often the trade off of street compounds vs track compounds. Sure, narrower tires of better compound can work better than wider tires of lesser compounds which means reduced cost, reduced weight and improved grip. Evaluate the trade offs, and make a decision. Its kind of like the bigger and bigger cam selection theory in engine building.

Badass picture, too bad that Jag is in the way.

I wonder if the Jag was at the time checking his mirrors?

Your photos are fabulous.. !




"Holy crapola Batman!"
- That's a whole lotta useful and detailed information, Tom. - Thank you - I've surfed through it, and I'll pass those links along to my brother for him to drool over..

Myself I drive an Alfa GTV6, 5 seasons now, and I'm skirting that boundary between track performance and roadability. We don't have trailers, so have to keep them road legal, and "comfortable" as drivers too.
Be that as it may, your write-ups from 2011 and 2012 are super useful. A lot of experience, advice and tech-tips are applicable no matter what car you drive, brake cooling for instance, so Thanks again.
- Art

Here's a gratuitous pic of the GTV6.
For anyone wondering, these won the European Touring Car Championship 4 years in a row starting in 1982 among many other racing successes.
In the marketplace, their competition was the Datsun 280Z and Porsche 944.
Front engine, 155hp, aluminum 2.5L SOHC hemi head. Double A-arms with torsion bars in front, the rear is a deDion axle with Watts linkage and a 5-speed transaxle for 51/49 weight balance.
Sways and vented discs front and rear, OEM 16in magnesium Campagnolo rims too.

Those Alfa GTV6 are pretty fun. I drove one of those when I lived in Switzerland in the early 90's.

Notice the front of my brother's RR peeking out behind the rear quarter in the photo..


I imagine the mountain roads could've been incredible ..and you remember the sound that engine makes? Not for nuthin' it was voted the "The Second Best Sounding Engine in Automotive History" by Classic and Sportscar Magazine. This summer I took it to a car rallye fundraiser where we swapped car keys among drivers who brought Lotus, Maserati, Jaguar, Miatas, RX7s, Camaros, Citroen, BMW, etc.. At the closing dinner the GTV6 received the award for "The Most Fun" to drive.

OK ..sorry, not trying to hijack the topic.. here's more from Turn #18 at New York Safety Track..

So....ThermoQuad won't respond to my question ?

Some people are touchier then others, best to let it go.

Some awesome photos in this thread, I love seeing the corner carving Mopars. I've always loved that yellow Hotchkis Challenger and I finally have a car very similar.

I am away from here most of the time so patience is required. It takes a while for me to type something to detail. Technical support is only good if you use it. This is technical support.

Remember the cars i build are driven normally like as in transportation that your wife can drive and run many hot laps on the road course track. When i built the Charger [car#2] our goal was to run the magic number at the Glen [Thunder Road] of 2.5 minutes on the full course on street tires and still have the wife drive it. We did both. The owner & wife passed away at 52 recently so track tires on the track are out of the question. I am now the caretaker of the car - awaiting license plates - so if i am lucky i will bring it to Carlisle and i may even run it at the Glen in June. It has factory type cruise control for those 80 mph interstate runs. The car is a blast to drive fast and easy to drive slow.

The thinking is always to put huge tires on the car to make it handle better but huge tires come with compromises. A 26 inch tall tire with 10 inches of tread fits perfectly and looks perfect. No compromises means there is no rubbing or hitting in full travel and high speed driving/turning situations. The bigger tires require the proper selection of HD suspension parts and car needs structural modifications to eliminate flex. In other words back up the grip. I am not convinced that staggered tire sizes is practical from a handling geometry viewpoint on these cars from years of laps and normal {?} driving.


You have to back up the big tires with good hardware on a solid platform. Weld & box the k frame is mandatory as are adjustable shocks, boxed lower control arms, aftermarket upper control arms, firm feel 3 box etc. 16:1 steering is perfect for the road course, i see no requirement for fasting ratios etc as that will not make the car faster in the turns so the lap times get better. Bling.
Don't forget the brakes.

Regardless of size you need proper tire selection to get the car to rotate in a turn - like it's on string. W or Z rated selection so you can switch to track tires if you really want fly. I ran both types of tires. The close to stock look of 255-50-16 inch tires on a retro look 16 inch wheel tires is a nice and proper look. You don't want car people to know the car is really a wicked wanda. An old muscle car with five spoke mag wheels. Btw a sidewall is required for ride comfort. Go look on the tire rack for a w rated street tire and track tire and there are no 17 inch selections.


Tires

Well that is polite and reasoned reply with many valid agreeable points.

However my viewpoint is different.

I agree as one "over tires" ANY vehicle, other mods need to be taken to utilize the larger(?) tires full traction circle.

That DOS NOT mean there is no benefit from over tiring a vehicle without mods.

I have not I believe, anywhere suggested there is no downside in over tiring a car, in the realm of additional rotational mass, higher aero drag, aqua planing, cost, unbalancing due to poor size selection per axle, etc.

However one can on their own decide if the benefits in "overtiring" is worth the cost, in areas of higher driving performance, decreased braking distance ,etc.

My life experience in over 4 decades of "over tiring", and thru nearly all the sharing of others in that time, other then this thread, I have yet to review a solid case of how over tiring is a"mistake" and needs to be avoided, to the point, in the past, overtiring is but just a myth. That does not mean someday we might reach that point, like when an axles tires start to touch in the middle.

Hope you are warm and cozy down there, JC. It's 6F up here.

"I have yet to review a solid case of how over tiring is a "mistake" and needs to be avoided.."

I think ThermoQ is saying don't overtire a car without understanding the car's components are more likely to fail, which may be a mistake that will ruin your day.
I think you are saying don't be afraid to "over-tire" your car because better tires have clear and obvious performance benefits right out of the gate.

Would that be fair to say? Neither position is wrong - I think it's a choice.

Preaching to the choir here, but just to rehash or explain the thinking for my response;

Grippier tires allow a car to go faster but has a domino-effect. The most common result is it breaks the car somewhere. And if it breaks, some would be right to call that a mistake because it can end a day of racing, while others label it an opportunity to go faster and find where to make the car stronger..

Some owners want to invest up front and get the benefit while avoiding their car breaking a component, vs owners who are willing to get the benefit and willing to learn if their car breaks and needs repairing later. Most owners probably fall in the middle of these..

When the welds on the RoadRunner's front K-frame crack from the stress induced by the grippy tires ...which I found it on my brother's RR after 1/2 day of tracking on his new tires.. I showed him, and he decided to slow down, but not to stop racing the RR for the day. His drum brakes were already limiting him, so my brother didn't define this failure as a "mistake", but rather a problem he'll deal with later. I took it a step further and listed several additional places he should have stiffeners welded in, front and rear.

Each car, each setup, each component, and each attitude towards it, is a choice. We all compromise between benefit vs detriment, speed vs durability, - the increase in performance, weight, durability, cost, etc. and the all significant forces working on the car come via the tires -> cornering, braking and accelerating.
Cheers,
- Art

The road racers on the vette forum run faster times at road atlanta on 275's square vs 315's square. Same compound.

Contact patch for a given weight is always the same square inches.

Maybe, but three things i take away from that:

1. The vettes then need more horsepower
2. I bet a sixpack their 100-0 ft distance is less with the larger tires.
3. Tire pressure can effect contact patch, and the on track, tires aren't statically loaded , so it might be hard here on a keyboard to determine which set of tires are ideally pressured.


And "67"satisfaction Has a IMO valid restating of my position on the subject.

Doesn't surprise me, bigger tire requires more heat before the compound gets to it's optimal temperature. It is very important to match that for the given situation, autox, endurance, drag, etc. That said, a softer compound on the 315 setup will likely be faster and not overheat.

Here are a couple from the oval track in the early 80s when I first started getting into how to make a big ole mopar turn as well as it went straight. Didn't have very sophisticated camera gear then. These are from the trusty Kodak Instamatic. Since this is a moparts, I'll limit this to the Plymouths and leave out the Chevys, Pontiacs, and Fords I've played with as well.

Red car was a slant 6 unit with front end damage I picked up for $300 and swapped in a 318. Blue car was a Sebring trim level car with a 383. Found it on the back of a dealers lot for $800. Class was highly restricted in mods allowed. The drag strip and oval track shared pits, hence the picture in front of the strip tower.

1970 Cuda at the Red Bull Ring. Quickest lap @ 1:56

Car is on street tires and with full interior. Motor is a 572 Aluminium wedge mated to a tko 600 5-speed transmission.

What kinda mileage does it get?



Nicely equipped car.

3eighty3 that is awesome, do you have any video?

Here's my 63 valiant lemons racecar..

Met you guys at Lemons December 2018 at Sears Point we "had" the duster there. Great car.

Very cool

Some old picks of some Auto-X at that MATS. Car did ok for totally not being set up for it. I got 2nd in my class.

A 440?

Looks good to me

Nice looking 72 Cuda! and having fun with the car!

Yes Sir! Thanks, it’s a work in progress.

Come on, get that battery in the trunk, the front tires are in pain with that 440.

Little by little I've been chipping away at it. Battery will go in the trunk, aluminum heads/intake/water pump/radiator, Borgeson box should help a bit... possibly fiberglass fenders and AAR hood.

Like I said, car wasn't set up buy any means when I tried Auto-X. After that and a bunch of track days in my VW when I was stationed over in Europe... I've been hooked!!! Going from street strip to pro-tour'ish.

Finally did it.

Took the Super Bee out to Thunderhill Raceway in Willows, California for 2 track days, back to back. Runs were cut short because it was hot out and the auto trans would get hot. I wasn't the fastest car, but I was the guy having the most fun. I went with low expectations for the car but it did incredibly well, hanging with modern cars.These cars are great for track use.

Couple more shots....

Nice Pics BTW, were they professionally done?

I could even make out the smile on the drivers face.

Yes.....Pro pics by Aries Photography. $80 for two days (15 photos).

Almost forgot, your car looks awesome, and your lines/apexes look spot on, money well spent, of course I'm not seeing the other 12 pics.

Thanks for sharing the track pics with your SuperBee! Tons of fun!!!

pic of my Dart at 90mph+ at the track little 340 alu heads flat top mahle forged pistons making 410 hp@6300 lots of fun

Having some fun at Blackhawk Farms with friends.

Unfortunately I was busy with racing and other odds and ends, so I gave a friend my camera...and a 3 minute run-down on how to use it.... so they aren't the best.

Does your helmet have a wig?

Other then that, nice.

Helmets?... I noticed and wondered similarly... better on the head than not on. At slow speeds, such as "~lunch-time track touring" ... they can be not required, but anytime "at-speed" with other cars.. absolutely required... club insurances would also mandate.

T/Anks for sharing the pics!

Hi Ryan! (aka Devil) -- When were you at BHF? Cool to see other Mopars on track. I was there the entire weekend of July 3-4-5 for our MCSCC.org opening season race weekend... we had a huge overall turnout each day... and had to turn people away (unless they pre-registered) from entering the track (Illinois state limited people due to the virus). I was the Tower "PA Announcer" for the weekend.... my Challenger is almost ready to drive again!... I'll Be Back!

T/Anks for sharing the pics... very cool!

no helet , hard head besides never got over 120- 130 mph highway speeds in the old days

A few years ago a friend of mine rented the track for the day. I haven't been back since sadly.

I started a facebook page called Classic Mopar Handling if anyone wants to post photos of thier track car, etc.

Facebook ?

[quote=Frankenduster]Facebook


Ditto here on FB and other social media.

Ive got one called corner carving mopars too, good job 👍🏼

Went to Thunder Hill Raceway on Memorial Day again. Bee was awesome besides for the trans getting hot during each session. Went out 7 times between the two tracks. The car did suprisingly well and was an absolute blast. Here are some pics from the pro photographer.

Mike

More pics from Thunder Hill

Last set of pictures from Thunder Hill

That chassis set with the enclosed pics and estimated speeds, looks to be a very well sorted out package.

Car to share any of your set-up specs?

Careful, your face may freeze with that smile on it. Looks like it handles pretty well.
What size rear tire are you running?

Setup is pretty simple and cheap. Stock front suspension with Hotchkis 1.1 torsions and a Summit brand 1 1/8 sway bar. I did get a proper alignment with -1.0 Camber / 3.5 Caster / and toe'd in just a bit. Rear is HD springs, 1.0" blocks, and a 7/8" Summit rear sway set in the middle. I did swap to disc's in the front with EBC Yellows, but the rear still has the 11" drums. Added brake cooling too. The ride height is down from stock but I don't remeber the exact drop. Its super predictable and well manered.

Here's my tire wheel setup

Front Rim: 15x8, 4.5 bs

Front Tire: 245/60R15

Rear Rim: 15x10, 5.5 bs

Rear Tire: 295/50R15

These tires are roughly 26.5 in diameter front and rear for balance. I studied tire sizes over and over again and compromised with this setup to be safe. The tires are Mickey Thompson's Sportsman S/T's which have a treadwear rating of 440.




.......And Yes, I'm still smiling

Gotta love the bowtie having a view of your tail lights.

Well that is as well balanced as the car looks.

Might as well ask what your drive train is.

Thanks, It really is a happy car. Nice thing is the car can go back to stock if I ever want to go back down that road.

Motor is a low compression 440 with a 6 pack. No bogging in the corners. 727 trans that unfortunately gets hot on very hot days but I’m working that out. 8 3/4 rear with 3:23’s. Typically gets into the mid 4K RPMs in the main straight. Best part of the car....still has the bench seat and factory seat belts.

Looks like a lot of fun MoparMike23! And on a bench seat no less.

Man, how fun.. That shot of you with oversteer looks like a blast.. !
- Art

Nice pics... lots of fun!