Guess the Dyno Results - 572 CID B1 original heads

I expect to have my engine on the dyno this weekend. Let's hear some educated guesses!

Engine Summary:
572 CID (4.500” bore x 4.500” stroke) 14.3 CR
B1 original Heads, CNC Ported 429/326 cfm at 0.800” lift, milled to 60cc chambers, 332cc intake ports, 125cc exhaust ports
T&D paired rocker arms 1.7 ratio, part number 8013, 5/8” shafts
B1 cast single 4-barrel intake manifold with RB spacers.
ICON Elite forged Pistons # IC433CAKTS gas ported with rings & 0.185” wall Trend wrist pins, 1.355 Compression height, -6.5cc net relief
Rings 0.043" top SS with CrN, 1/16" Napier 2nd, 3/16" oil ring
Cometic 5-layer MLS head gaskets 4.530” dia x 0.056” thick
Cam duration 282/295 at 0.050”, 0.800” lift, 113 LSA
7/16 dia Comp Cams pushrods, 0.165” wall, ball-ball ends, pushrod oiling
Headers have 8" of 2-1/8" primary tubes, then 21" of 2-1/4” tubes with 4” collectors

The initial pulls will be with an 1150 Dominator and 116 octane Sunoco Maximal race gas.
Then I will switch to the bracket racing carb I will be running in the car. APD 4150 series "1000 cfm" and pure alky (methanol).

If anybody has a similar dyno result, please post it. I am not really sure what this thing will make.

Jim
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...3230/572-b1-org-part-1-buying-parts.html
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...1-org-part-2-component-observations.html
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...2-b1-org-part-3-machine-shop-report.html
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2928218/572-b1-org-part-4-mock-ups.html
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...66856/572-b1-org-part-5-build-notes.html

875 gas
920 alcohol

1025 Gas
1060 Alky.

910HP on gas

980 (gas)
1025 (alky)

Interesting estimates so far.
IMO, I think the "little" 4150 carb will limit the airflow of the 572 CID at higher rpm (7000 ish), and therefore make less peak horsepower. Even if it makes more peak torque around 5500-5700 rpm.

I really want to know what rpm the peak torque and peak horsepower will occur.
Nothing fancy on this engine. The only "exotic" part is the Predator offset distributor. I got a good deal on one that had only 1 season of use. So the typical MSD billet distributor will stay with my old 570 hp iron head engine.

I'd expect around 900 hp on race gas with that carb. Probably see peak power around 7000 rpm with the 1150 carb. Has the intake been ported or is it as cast? I know those are pretty good intakes as cast but porting will still help a bit. Not so sure on the torque, maybe 750 at 5500 rpm?

We've run a bunch of engines that size, with good heads, big cams, same compression, same size carbs on the dyno this year but nothing with that exact combo of parts. Everything similar we've run has been right around 900 hp at 7000 rpm.

Peak torque 5800, HP 6900. My bet is on gas with the bigger carb 960 HP.
Doug

I bought the intake used, so I don't know the history. Visually, I can see some clean up inside. But I don't know how much.
The intake manifold exit openings are slightly larger than the Koffel gaskets. I "ported" the 3/4" thick RB spacers to transition to the even larger heads. Then I used a Flat Out Gasket that had the right size openings .

More info on Part 5 build notes.
Link to Part 5 - intake

For comparison, we have a .030 over 572 (580) with less lift (.768 gross), less flow (around 395), less C/R (12.4) but more carb (2 x 1150 TR). According to Wallace, it makes around 910hp on a good day (142 mph + @ 4023lb). Best shift point seems to be around 6800, rpms fall back 500rpm or so.
So I'm guessing around 940 on gas and 1000 on Alcohol

I'm not qualified to make an educated guess, but am looking forward to the results.

On gas it should go 1075+Hp no problem.

I’d be looking for around 925-950 with the 1150 and race gas.

No vacuum pump?

That's right; no vacuum pump. Nothing fancy.
It will be interesting to see the difference in the Dominator on gas and the 4150 series alky carb.
I had a hard time finding a dyno that would do this motor. Some "reasons" various shops gave me:
1) We only dyno engines we built
2) We don't have the stuff to do a Big Block Mopar (one had 6-bolt but not 8-bolt crank connector)
3) We dont' run alcohol in our dyno flow meters.

If not vacuum pump, hopefully you're going to have some positive evac via the collectors? So, with evac I'm guessing assuming heads and intake are 'good'? I'd assume 960-980 with the 4500 on gas. It'd be nice if you moved the cam 2 degrees to see and report on the results. Also from what i remember the belt in those distributors would retard the advance a couple of degrees at higher speed. Either way NO judgement and GOOD LUCK!!!

I have seen enough “strange looking” dyno sheets over the years to know they definitely don’t all spit out the same numbers.

The combo is pretty straight foward, and unless something is “wrong” with the motor, it’s going to make good power.

I feel that whatever the numbers are........ they could easily vary by over 50hp if the engine were tested on some different dyno services.

Just work on the tune up, get the best numbers you can....... and don’t get too excited about whatever the actual number is.

I am not educated but will say like 1000-something just to play along. Good luck with it!

Those are pretty common answers. The place I work with usually won't dyno engines they didn't build since it often turns into a pig pile. He has modified his policy over the years so he'll dyno engines from certain shops that he trusts but it still goes sideways on a regular basis. Not having the correct motor mounts or crank adapters or headers is also a common problem. It can cost upwards of a $1000 to equip the dyno for each engine model and if the customer doesn't want to pay for it then why should the dyno operator. A BB Mopar is fairly common so you should be able to find a shop with the setup you need but good luck if you want your nailhead run on the dyno or a 409 or something like that.

Alcohol shouldn't be an issue but I'd charge extra since it takes time to flush the system out afterwards. You're probably looking at $2000 for a couple of days of testing including switching carbs and fuel and doing multiple pulls to dial in the timing and jetting.

Like yours,...... mine was #1050 HP before the Procharger.

The first B1 bracket motor I built and dyno (551 C.I.) made 920 HP with a 1400+ CFM Dam Best carb that was way to rich at WOT on C12 I think, the customer provided the fuel.
That was with the stock B1 cast Dominator intake and right at 13.0 to 1 compression with a World iron block.
I'm in the process of making a 572 C.I. B1 KB aluminum block bracket motor running E85 with a pair of Mark Sullens E85 Dominator carbs flowing around a 1000 CFM each, I'm hoping and shooting for 1000 + HP on pump E85
I may add around 550 HP of NOS to it later for a local No Pep deal

After supplying a BB Mopar bellhousing, 8-bolt manual transmission flywheel, starter, etc. the dyno shop that said they will test my engine called and said they can't do it.
Their dyno mounting has several hole patterns (trans patterns) to bolt the dyno to the engine bellhousing; but none fit the Chrysler A833 manual transmission.
A833
5.28" wide top holes
7.125" wide bottom holes
7.875" height from top to bottom holes

I will go out to the shop today and look at mine. I’ll see if mine will take that pattern. I haven’t gotten my dyno up and running yet but it’s close. Waiting on some hardware and a couple of water pumps.

Now that I think about it...it may not have the 833 pattern on it. I have a scatter shield and it has the 833 and GM pattern on it. I just can’t believe there isn’t an 833 pattern on it though.

You most likely need a bell from a big block truck. As I remember they will bolt up to several transmissions NP-435, NP-445 and possibly more. Someone on Moparts may have one you could borrow. Here is a link to one that could work . Bell

Well that is a bummer. I haven't run into that exact problem before but I'm familiar with those types of issues. There are some options but they'll all cost money. Here is one option: https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/bellhousings/engine_dyno_stand/parts/77-251

Here is another option: https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/bellhousings/engine_dyno_stand/parts/RM-8001

I'd think that the dyno shop would be interested in having one of these universal bellhousing on hand since then they can make more money in the future by testing BB Mopar engines. Maybe split the cost with them or something.

Here is another option, BB Mopar to Muncie bellhousing. You would want to verify the pattern that they have on the dyno but I would assume that Muncie would be one of the choices.
https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/bellhousings/mopar/parts/RM-6078

You can also redrill your existing bellhousing and/or weld a plate on it with the correct pattern. All depends on which way works out the easiest for you.

For the typical SF situation, you also need a centering ring to locate the bell housing to the absorber.
The Mopar bell housing also puts the engine farther forward, and has the crank farther away from the input shaft.
In order to get the pilot of the shaft centered on the crank, you either need a longer than “standard” shaft, a spacer behind the shaft to move it closer to the crank, or an extension located at the back of the crank....... the latter of which is what we do here.

The bellhousing gets drilled to facilitate two of the lower absorber mounting holes, and we use bolts with nuts to secure it.
We bought the correct centering ring from SF to locate the bellhousing.

None of it is hard........ but someone has to “want” to make it happen.

Jim
Would a JW Ultra bell for a BB to glide and a wheel and adapter work????? Todd

I thought about that. Then I looked at the JW bell on my PowerGlide. It uses the PG pump holes to mount to the transmission. So that pattern is certainly not on his old absorber attachment plate (not a transmission to bellhousing pattern). He will be returning my engine and parts Monday. His full time job is only 10 minutes from my house. The dyno is at his house.

He agreed it can be done, but it will take modifying/making parts and he is not going to do that. He actually does mostly NASCAR cup engines. He has a "plate with torsion springs" for the small dia Cup clutch, as well as the "street clutch" plate that does fit on the flywheel I gave him.

For other Moparts members, Both the bellhousing and flywheel were borrowed, so I can't let him modify them. He would need to buy his own to modify. He said he is not in a position to do that.

I know I am a long ways away, but if you could find someone that has a DTS/SF powermark there is no bellhousing needed.

Joe

Yep, my dyno won’t take an 833 pattern either. I never noticed because any time I’ve taken my junk to the dyno I always took my scatter shield with me and we used that. It has the GM pattern on it.

So I never even looked at my dyno. So now tomorrow I will be ordering a universal fit bell housing so I don’t have to screw around.

This.

Well said! Jim, sorry for your current difficulties!

Jim - Sorry to hear that things didn't go as planned. Maybe I missed it, but do you have a Plan B?

This was already plan "Z". Called lots of places the past couple months...

With all the old Mopar racers and general car racing in North Carolina, I am amazed nobody is dyno testing Hemi engines anymore. Only if they built the engine.

I guess it’ll depend in part on how far you’re willing to drive.

Alan P has a Mopar friendly dyno in NJ, and there’s always Barton in Pa.

You could also call Todd Marsh and see about the shop he uses.

Jim, there's an engine builder/machinist in Conway, SC, named Jesse Causey that has a dyno and I believe he has the ability to dyno a Mopar BB. Jesse is very good at what he does, but works a limited schedule nowadays.
I have never dealt w/ him myself, but member here "ek3" has.

Might be worth a shot to check w/ him if Todd Marsh can't hook you up.

Is coming back to MD too far? Burtonsville Performance Machine was OK w/ dyno-ing my engine before I decided to make the trip back to VT and have Dwayne handle it. And BPM does enough Stock Eliminator stuff I'd be shocked if they can't handle a G2 Hemi / 8-bolt crank deal.

Edit: If BPM can do the job, it's 40 miles from me (1 hour + drive depending upon traffic) and you're welcome to crash here night before / night after to save on travel expenses. Anyway, just throwing that out there.

Jim if we lived closer I could lend you the Lakewood blowshield we used for the Enginemasters , I drilled the needed hole pattern in it so that wouldn't have been an issue.

On that note if it would work I can ship it to you and pick it up on my way back from FL. late May , early June ?

Jim, thankyou for sharing a great build,as well as help on my project. I am sort of lost on what power it will make, but i will hazard a guess of 980 hp at 7200 rpm, and 770 tq at 5600 rpm. What ever it comes out at, it will be a stout ride👍

As said find a DTS/Superflowand there is no bell needed. For one requiring a bell use a BBM to PG adapter plate like sold by ATI and TCI and you should be golden. We have one here we use just for dyno stuff if we use a local shop that uses a bell set up. Not an insurmountable problem for sure. Finding someone with a smidgen of knowledge about BBM and dynos can be the hard part.

AS for power I can tell you my 4150 carb is about 20 HP down on my 540" B1. IMO a vacuum pump is not a "fancy"part these days and I belive is something any race engine needs and will benefit from. As for power compression ratio will kill some, I have made lots of power on unported intakes and seen very very little from ported ones, especially at 572". Id say you will be in the 915ish area if you can get it done.