572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
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05/18/21 03:16 PM
05/18/21 03:16 PM
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440Jim
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This topic is 572 B1 org Part 2-Component ObservationsClick this link to go back to Part 1This year I am building a 572 CID engine with B1 original heads. I hope to have it in my 1993 Daytona in the fall, after all points races and the Summit Bracket Team Finals are done. Basic engine plan is as follows: 4.500” bore x 4.500” stroke, 14.3 CR Approximately 14.7 CR (final CR will be after measuring piston to deck during assembly)B1 original heads flow 425 cfm intake, 310 exh at 0.700” and 429 cfm intake, 326 exh at 0.800” Cam duration 282/295 at 0.050”, 0.800” lift, 113 LSA (I have this, but may change) I need to build headers, planning 2.25” tubes, 4” collectors I need to buy pistons Here is my plan for posting progress: 572 B1 org Part 1-Buying Parts 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations572 B1 org Part 3-Machine Shop Report 572 B1 org Part 4-Mock-ups 572 B1 org Part 5-Build Notes 572 B1 org Part 6-Dyno Results 572 B1 org Part 7-Track Testing
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: 440Jim]
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05/18/21 03:21 PM
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440Jim
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Part 2-Bill Mitchell Products (BMP) aluminum wedge block. Pre-machine shop observations.1) Block comes with no cam bearings. 2) Lifter bushings need finish sizing. Brochure calls the bronze lifter bushings “semi-finished”. My lifter does not drop in. 3) Head bolt holes drilled 1.3” deep, threaded 1.15” deep (finger snug bolt). 4) Block comes with a nice rear seal retainer. Uses stock style seals (not included) See pic 5) Block comes with real ARP main studs, 1/2" dia. (Remember some of the early ~2009 World block studs?) 6) The BMP web site says the rear cam plug is threaded, but mine is a regular cup plug and so is the block (see hardware kit pic). 7) The BMP brochure says “Longer than stock head studs are required for the valley bolt holes”. But that is only the Hemi blocks. If you measure the head bolt holes at the center, they are 1.34” deep at the tip of the drill bit. From other racers and also my limited experience, have the following checked. a) Check crankshaft line hone. Some racer’s reported OK, other’s needed minor touch-up (could have been their used crank) b) Check distributor oil pump drive shaft bushing fit with oil pump drive shaft. c) Check deck surfaces for square and equal height. OK for some, other’s said needed minor decking. This is the hardware kit that was supplied with my block. I like the fact that the dowel pins (head, trans, timing cover) are NOT installed, in case you need to deck the block or use longer trans dowel pins for a midplate, etc. It oils similar to the factory Chrysler blocks, except the lifter bores are bushed (with a 0.030” hole to each lifter). The oil flows from the oil pump across the front of the block to the right side lifter gallery. Then it flows to the rear and the oil crossover to the left side lifter gallery is different. The factory blocks have the top/rear external oil taps at an angle to the other lifter gallery. These BMP blocks have the top/rear holes going straight down (vertical), and a new crossover passage is cast/drilled from the left side horizontally to connect the vertical passages. See my green lines. I did put a piece of wire from the #5 main to the right side oil gallery (angled blue line), and that same hole in the main saddle has another hole drilled vertically up (yellow line) to oil the cam bearing. There are more overall pictures in Part 1 of this topic if you didn’t see them. Part 1 - BMP block - Buying Parts
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: 440Jim]
#2924478
05/19/21 02:33 PM
05/19/21 02:33 PM
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440Jim
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Part 2-B1 original heads. I bought these heads from another racer that decided to go a different route. He never put them on an engine. These heads have a lot of aluminum and extend past the block front and rear. Based on an old post by AlAlguire, I machined clearance on the heads for the rivets on Cometic MLS head gaskets. The block needed less clearancing, but I did that too. Just be sure to put the gaskets on the way you will use them. Since flipping the gasket over puts the rivets in a different location. Attached is a picture showing the pushrod hole clearancing I mentioned in my next post for the rocker arms. The flow numbers and other info are in Part 1 of this topic if you didn’t see them. Part 1 - B1 original heads
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: 440Jim]
#2924483
05/19/21 02:46 PM
05/19/21 02:46 PM
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440Jim
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Part 2-T&D 1.7 ratio rocker arms. Part number 8013, 5/8” shaft, paired rockers per cylinder. Component Observations
The T&D 1.7 ratio rocker part number 8013, 5/8” shaft, paired rockers per cylinder will require elongating the pushrod holes in the heads toward the intake manifold side. The T&D catalog shows the #8013 set uses 0.080” longer rocker arms than the typical B1 single shaft per head setup. So that explains the holes needing to move toward the intake manifold, away from the valve side of the heads. And my first mock-up shows the holes do need that work, especially the intake pushrod holes. I used a 5/8” dia endmill and moved the centerline 0.125” toward the intake manifold side. The heads originally had a 5/8” dia hole for the intake pushrod, and a 3/4” dia hole for the exhaust pushrod. So moving the centerline of the larger exhaust hole with the 5/8” endmill had less affect than the intake holes.
Note, the intake pushrod holes are at an angle to allow the wider B1 intake port and the 0.800” offset rocker arms. Also, the 0.125” move is more important at the top, rocker end, since the pushrod will angle back to the same lifter location. During Part 4 Mock ups, most of the intake holes needed another 0.010” near the top. Since the final/actual lifter location on the base circle, and the final pushrod length, required turning the rocker adjusters about 1.5 turns from the factory supplied position (which was screwed all the way in, i.e. minimum cup sticking out.) My final clearance work in Part 4 changes the Part 2 distance “0.125 inch” to “0.145 inch”.
Last edited by 440Jim; 09/18/21 11:34 AM. Reason: Added Part 4 need for more clearance.
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: AndyF]
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05/19/21 03:39 PM
05/19/21 03:39 PM
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440Jim
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Part 2-Molnar H-beam connecting rods, 7.100” long, 2.200” rod journals. Component Observations. CH7100VTB8-A - ARP2000
I posted almost all the info in Part 1. I did measure the length of one rod to the best of my ability, and it checked right at 7.100" In the past, I measured a set of 6.535 rods from another manufacturer, and they were only 6.530" Final assembly confirmed the piston was 0.005" lower than it should have been.
Here are some beam measurements, FWIW. These are some beefy beams, IMO. Likely a design decision since they are so long.
Last edited by 440Jim; 05/21/21 08:04 PM. Reason: Added length comment
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: AndyF]
#2924500
05/19/21 03:44 PM
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440Jim
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Looks good. ... anything B1 related is going to require a lot of hand finish work. Having access to a mill allows you to do a nice professional job rather than hacking things up with a die grinder. I am better with the Bridgeport and lathe than the hand grinder... LOL But I think this pushrod clearancing can easily be done by a professional head porter with a die grinder and carbide bit. Since I am making clearance for using either lifters with centered pushrod seats and offset seats, the Bridgeport and long endmill does make a nice straight, long passage for the intake holes. If using typical lifters with centered pushrod seats, the existing holes need very little work at the bottom, more at the rocker end.
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: 440Jim]
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05/19/21 05:07 PM
05/19/21 05:07 PM
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ZIPPY
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Hey Jim, If I may make a suggestion: When done with each section, it might be a good idea to ask one of the moderators to move the threads to the Members Projects Area so the pictures don't get lost. Since the Tech Archives here are not really maintained these days, it might be the only way to make sure the info is saved. Your info is always so great and you put so much effort into it, but when threads get a few years old the pictures disappear..... going into the other area might prevent that. Just an idea....
Rich H.
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: ZIPPY]
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05/19/21 08:47 PM
05/19/21 08:47 PM
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440Jim
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Hey Jim, If I may make a suggestion: When done with each section, it might be a good idea to ask one of the moderators to move the threads to the Members Projects Area so the pictures don't get lost. Brilliant ! Both Part 1 and Part 2 are not "done". I still need to buy pistons, etc. and I will update each "Part" when available. Also, any questions about a post in each "Part" I can answer in the "Part". But this fall it would be helpful in the long term to have the pictures with the text for years. I have been doing searches for many years, and I have experienced your issue.
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: 440Jim]
#2924753
05/20/21 08:18 AM
05/20/21 08:18 AM
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ZIPPY
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Hey Jim, If I may make a suggestion: When done with each section, it might be a good idea to ask one of the moderators to move the threads to the Members Projects Area so the pictures don't get lost. Brilliant ! Both Part 1 and Part 2 are not "done". I still need to buy pistons, etc. and I will update each "Part" when available. Also, any questions about a post in each "Part" I can answer in the "Part". But this fall it would be helpful in the long term to have the pictures with the text for years. I have been doing searches for many years, and I have experienced your issue. Thank you sir. Google images seems to be a better source for older images than the site itself (odd). Ability to comment or question is perpetual in the projects area, wheras since the archive is basically locked, which is an advantage. I made the mistake of moving more than one valuable, helpful thread to the archive back in my past days as a moderator, and got yelled at ("Hey I wasn't done with it!") ....this will never happen in the projects area if it works as designed.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2928058
05/29/21 11:12 AM
05/29/21 11:12 AM
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440Jim
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Part 2-Australian Muscle Parts (AMP) Belt drive cam timing kit. Component Observations
There are no instructions or parts list included, so here is what I observed is included: 1 ea block mounting plate, 0.41” thick. Black powder coated. 1 ea Belt, PIX TorquePlus XT2, 640 8M RL 1211. Rounded tooth belt. 1.0” wide, 80 teeth. 1 ea Idler pulley 1.773” dia with outer guide lips. Secured with 3/8-16x1.45” long socket head bolt. 1 ea Crankshaft pulley. Crank pulley has three 6mm-1.0 threaded holes for puller. 1 ea Camshaft hub & pulley assembly, adjustable pulley with 6 ea 5/16-24 nyloc nuts and washers. 1 ea Camshaft adapter bearing assembly. 3-bolt cam attachment, 2 caged thrust bearings. 1 ea Crankshaft seal 3.250” OD x 2.375” ID x 0.375” KOK 6847 TC12194 1 ea Cam shaft seal 3.250” OD x 2.375” ID x 0.375” KOK 6847 TC12194 3 ea Cam socket head bolts (3/16 allen), 3/8-16 x 1.5” long.
You will need block mounting bolts: 4 ea 5/16-18 x1” long, 4 ea 3/8-16 x1” long and a standard timing cover gasket. The cam & crank lip seals have the same part number on them. The idler pulley mounts to a steel boss bolted to the aluminum mounting plate. The idler has a ball bearing inside, and an eccentric adjuster for belt slack. I noticed the socket head bolt had the end ground to a length of 1.45”.
Last edited by 440Jim; 09/25/21 11:03 AM. Reason: Fixed typo should be: seal 3.250” OD x 2.375” ID x 0.375
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: 440Jim]
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08/06/21 07:37 AM
08/06/21 07:37 AM
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440Jim
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Part 2-UEM/ICON Elite Pistons. Component Observations My pistons arrived on August 5, 2021. These are from the first production run of this stocking design for 572 CID B1 engines. # IC433CAKTS.std part number with rings 1.355 Compression height, Published as -0.020 below stock 10.725 deck Lateral gas porting on the top land, Top land 0.300" from top Ring Set #: 4500JS8.005 0.043, 1/16, 3/16 ring pack: - Top Ring Stainless steel with (CrN-PVD) - 2nd Ring Ductile Iron Napier with Phosphate - Oil Ring Stainless Steel Chrome Trend Wrist pins Part No. G99029301854130, 0.185” wall, 176 grams. 5cc dome with -12cc valve reliefs. Effective volume of -6.5cc Hard Anodized crown & top ring land UltraWear M42 skirt coating
Before sending everything to the machine shop, here are my observations. These are big valve reliefs; and should be plenty deep and large dia for whatever valves & cam you run. Intake: 0.320 / 2.526 dia Exhaust: 0.325 / 1.980 dia My inexpensive scale shows about 603 grams for the piston alone, a little bit heavier than a custom machined for lightening.
Last edited by 440Jim; 08/06/21 03:25 PM. Reason: updated diameter measurements
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Re: 572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
[Re: HardcoreB]
#2952095
08/09/21 03:05 PM
08/09/21 03:05 PM
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440Jim
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Who did the head work? That's pretty good flow for a 2.30" valve/orig B1. The original owner of the B1 heads had them CNC ported, then prepped (valve job, etc). He never used the heads, then I bought them. So I don't know what shop did the CNC porting.
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