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Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
#966711
04/05/11 10:54 AM
04/05/11 10:54 AM
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mshred
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Hey guys, Its coming close to me installing my 91 LA 360 motor in front of my A833. My crank has a hole drilled in it, but im not sure if the hole is for an auto or a manual. Is there a specific dimension that will help me tell what it was drilled for? I can measure the depth and i.d. of the hole and post that up since I would like to know if i need to order the bushing or the bearing for the pilot hole. thanks! Matthew 
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: kenworth_goose]
#966718
04/05/11 08:20 PM
04/05/11 08:20 PM
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mshred
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Ok, here is the answer you're looking for. You need to mount your bell and the trans (without the clutch) to the back of your engine to make sure the rough hole is deep enough! If it is then go buy the roller type bearing instead of the brass bushing if you want to make everything last longer wear less etc. The brass bushings were the "old". The roller bearings are the "new". In this case the "new is better at holding the shaft more in a fixed position. And they wear far less than the brass bushings. If the hole isn't deep enough then you can remove 1/2" off the shaft and gring it back down to a taper. But still use the roller bearing. You may have to remove more but you don't want to remove too much, cause you can't put it back on. 
The only reason I don't want to do the method you are suggesting is because I can't lol...the engine is currently on a stand being put together, so I cant really bolt on the bellhousing. This is why I was looking for a measurement since i cant still get my hands and some calipers back there...and im sure there is one (a measurement), just wondering if someone may have it
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: Pntastar69]
#966720
04/06/11 03:53 PM
04/06/11 03:53 PM
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Gilbertsville, PA 19525
Pntastar69
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Mount the bell to the trans and measure the length of the shaft from the surface of the bell, then measure from the motor surface to the depth of the hole in the crank.
You asked and I offered. You DO NOT need to mount the bell to the block w/this method. GEESH!!!
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: Pntastar69]
#966721
04/06/11 04:02 PM
04/06/11 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Mount the bell to the trans and measure the length of the shaft from the surface of the bell, then measure from the motor surface to the depth of the hole in the crank.
You asked and I offered. You DO NOT need to mount the bell to the block w/this method. GEESH!!!
ooops, i read that wrong  I can get those measurements, but the second one i just want to clarify- im measuring from the surface of the motor (as in where the bellhousing WOULD mount) to the depth of the hole in the crank?
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: Pntastar69]
#966723
04/09/11 09:38 AM
04/09/11 09:38 AM
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Coooooooooorrect!!!
well I went to go measure from the bellhousing mounting flange on the block to the depth of the hole in the crank, but the hole in the crank goes in deeper than the mounting flange, so i really couldnt measure...any clue as to what this means? 
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mshred]
#966724
04/09/11 11:22 AM
04/09/11 11:22 AM
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Charlotte, NC
446acuda
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Quote:
ooops, i read that wrong I can get those measurements, but the second one i just want to clarify- im measuring from the surface of the motor (as in where the bellhousing WOULD mount) to the depth of the hole in the crank?
That depth needs to be MORE than 1-1/16" since the typical bellhousing is 7.38" deep and the typical input overall length is approximately 8-7/16". The diameter of that needs to be ~0.940 to use a pilot bushing or if it is slightly less use the undersized O.D. bushing from napa. Or don't worry about that hole at all and use the bushing/housing that fits in the torque converter hub area 4338876 or bearing/housing 53009180. If the crank is undrilled just chop off some of the input shaft.
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: 446acuda]
#966725
04/09/11 06:55 PM
04/09/11 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
ooops, i read that wrong I can get those measurements, but the second one i just want to clarify- im measuring from the surface of the motor (as in where the bellhousing WOULD mount) to the depth of the hole in the crank?
That depth needs to be MORE than 1-1/16" since the typical bellhousing is 7.38" deep and the typical input overall length is approximately 8-7/16". The diameter of that needs to be ~0.940 to use a pilot bushing or if it is slightly less use the undersized O.D. bushing from napa. Or don't worry about that hole at all and use the bushing/housing that fits in the torque converter hub area 4338876 or bearing/housing 53009180. If the crank is undrilled just chop off some of the input shaft.
thank you for the info! That really helps clarify it! I will have to measure the depth and see
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: 446acuda]
#966726
05/16/11 10:13 PM
05/16/11 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
ooops, i read that wrong I can get those measurements, but the second one i just want to clarify- im measuring from the surface of the motor (as in where the bellhousing WOULD mount) to the depth of the hole in the crank?
That depth needs to be MORE than 1-1/16" since the typical bellhousing is 7.38" deep and the typical input overall length is approximately 8-7/16". The diameter of that needs to be ~0.940 to use a pilot bushing or if it is slightly less use the undersized O.D. bushing from napa. Or don't worry about that hole at all and use the bushing/housing that fits in the torque converter hub area 4338876 or bearing/housing 53009180. If the crank is undrilled just chop off some of the input shaft.
is the 4338876 and 53009180 the same parts, or do they differ significantly? I tried calling the dealer today with the 433 number and they said it was a discontinued part. I cant get a set of calipers in my crank because of how close the bolts for the stand are, so im not sure how deep it is, or what the diameter of the hole is
Should I try the 530 number and see if they have it? Is there another pilot bearing/ bushing that I should look for instead?
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mshred]
#966727
05/17/11 12:06 AM
05/17/11 12:06 AM
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mopar346
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I hate to over simplify this but I just did it with a 84 or so 360. Stick your finger in the hole in the crank and see how deep it is and then measure your finger as compared to the length of the "stub" on the input shaft of the tranny. There is a pretty good difference between the drilled and undrilled cranks. It's really not that complicated.
If all else fails take the engine off the stand and mount it to the tranny.
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mopar346]
#966728
05/17/11 08:13 AM
05/17/11 08:13 AM
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Quote:
I hate to over simplify this but I just did it with a 84 or so 360. Stick your finger in the hole in the crank and see how deep it is and then measure your finger as compared to the length of the "stub" on the input shaft of the tranny. There is a pretty good difference between the drilled and undrilled cranks. It's really not that complicated.
If all else fails take the engine off the stand and mount it to the tranny.
damn, why didnt I think of that?
Just out of curiosity, did yours end up being drilled or undrilled? and what bearing did you end up using?
thanks!
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: Pntastar69]
#966731
05/17/11 05:12 PM
05/17/11 05:12 PM
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It's been over a month, get a cherry picker and pull the block from the stand and measure the darn hole already. That's the only correct way to do it.
Like i already said, the engine is on a stand and will be staying there for now...
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mopar346]
#966732
05/17/11 05:13 PM
05/17/11 05:13 PM
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Undrilled I believe, I was actually watching this thread for the bearing info (no need to double post). I have mocked it up in the floor, dealing with flywheel issues, so I haven't installed everything yet. Currently need a trans cross member I think, I haven't sorted through all my STUFF yet. 
yea but which bearing/bushing did you end up with?
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mshred]
#966735
05/17/11 06:49 PM
05/17/11 06:49 PM
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mopar346
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Quote:
Quote:
Undrilled I believe, I was actually watching this thread for the bearing info (no need to double post). I have mocked it up in the floor, dealing with flywheel issues, so I haven't installed everything yet. Currently need a trans cross member I think, I haven't sorted through all my STUFF yet.
yea but which bearing/bushing did you end up with?
If you'll notice I joined this conversation late last night and since then I slept and went to work. I am in Pa and I live & the car is in Fl, so as of yet I haven't installed a bearing or bushing. I have purchased a number that haven't work so that is why I think I have an undrilled crank (OD of the bushings have been too big, ID fine on the input shaft). As mentioned I came to this thread looking for an answer, which has been provided by an earlier post by someone. The way I see it, I need to pick up a bushing for an undrilled crank available from NAPA OR a roller bearing OR the oversize bushing that goes in the convertor flange. If I pick up all 3 then surely I will have something on hand that will work. The extras can just go in with the rest of my stuff. If I were you I would do the same, they cant be that much money and at least you will know that you have what you need. My schedule may be ahead of your so if I determine which one works the best for me, I will post it, possibly as soon as this week end.
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mopar346]
#966736
05/17/11 07:22 PM
05/17/11 07:22 PM
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Quote:
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Undrilled I believe, I was actually watching this thread for the bearing info (no need to double post). I have mocked it up in the floor, dealing with flywheel issues, so I haven't installed everything yet. Currently need a trans cross member I think, I haven't sorted through all my STUFF yet.
yea but which bearing/bushing did you end up with?
If you'll notice I joined this conversation late last night and since then I slept and went to work. I am in Pa and I live & the car is in Fl, so as of yet I haven't installed a bearing or bushing. I have purchased a number that haven't work so that is why I think I have an undrilled crank (OD of the bushings have been too big, ID fine on the input shaft). As mentioned I came to this thread looking for an answer, which has been provided by an earlier post by someone. The way I see it, I need to pick up a bushing for an undrilled crank available from NAPA OR a roller bearing OR the oversize bushing that goes in the convertor flange. If I pick up all 3 then surely I will have something on hand that will work. The extras can just go in with the rest of my stuff. If I were you I would do the same, they cant be that much money and at least you will know that you have what you need. My schedule may be ahead of your so if I determine which one works the best for me, I will post it, possibly as soon as this week end.
Thats understandable, no worries man
The only reason I keep asking is because as most of you know parts stores need application specific when ordering parts. I cant just go in and say I need the oversized bushing or undersized bearing. Without part numbers or a specific application they are lost, and therefore so am i lol
Im thinking that with the depth that I measured today that my crank may be a drilled crank, but I could be wrong since im not sure what the depth of the drilled cranks are
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mshred]
#966737
05/17/11 08:54 PM
05/17/11 08:54 PM
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mopar346
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Mine has the depth, it's the width that I believe is referred to as drilled or undrilled. Maybe someone with more 360 experience can clarify for both of us.
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mopar346]
#966738
05/17/11 10:23 PM
05/17/11 10:23 PM
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Mine has the depth, it's the width that I believe is referred to as drilled or undrilled. Maybe someone with more 360 experience can clarify for both of us.
are you serious man? LOL this whole time i thought drilled vs. undrilled meant the depth hence the having to chop off some of the input shaft if using the torque converter hub bearing
now im really confused
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mshred]
#966739
05/17/11 11:18 PM
05/17/11 11:18 PM
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mopar346
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I thought is just from deductive reasoning, not based on anything I have heard or been told. As I mentioned, I am looking for an answer as well. The clues/facts as I understand them, 1)if a crank is undrilled it requires a different pilot bushing, 2)the difference in the bushings are the OD 3)there is a third bushing option that uses the convertor flange area instead of the "normal" bushing area. All these point to (for me anyway) that all the shafts have the depth (I haven't personally seen one that didn't and I've looked at a bunch but not EVERY engine) but not the bushing width, ie not drilled for the bushing. I have heard that the reason some shafts are cut is for use behind a GM due to its strength over a muncie, fact or fiction this is what I understand. I do not know of a case where it was necessary to cut the shaft to put it behind a Mopar engine and I have bolted a fair amount of stuff together from varying applications.  Again, I would yeild to someone with more real experience with different facts and 360 experience to correct me. I only learn not get mad when corrected.
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mshred]
#966741
05/17/11 11:34 PM
05/17/11 11:34 PM
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mopar346
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Not defensive just discussing it, kind thinking out loud myself.
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: Pntastar69]
#966743
05/18/11 10:44 PM
05/18/11 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Here is the roller bearing I used for a 73 - 360 block. This one fit w/no mods needed to seat the bearing. There was plenty depth drilled for the shaft too. Again, it was a 73 - 360 block.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=447751
Do you know what vehicle that would cross reference from? If I give the parts guy a national bearing number he will be lost since all they know is make and model stuff.
Also, in terms of talking about drilled cranks, is it in reference to the depth, diameter, or both? maybe you can clarify this for us
I was going to go ahead and order the mopar torque converter hub #53009180...I am concerned though that if my crank is drilled, and this bearing being for undrilled cranks, that it may be too small in O.D. to fit in my crank. Then I am not sure what I will need 
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mshred]
#966744
05/18/11 10:53 PM
05/18/11 10:53 PM
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mopar346
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Get the number from the picture or even print the picture and have then cross reference it. Go to start thinking simpler!
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mopar346]
#966745
05/18/11 10:58 PM
05/18/11 10:58 PM
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Get the number from the picture or even print the picture and have then cross reference it. Go to start thinking simpler!
Trust me, thats how I think already, its the parts guys dont know anything! lol..all they know is vehicle specific. I will try, but id like to know the dimensions of this bearing and what it is similar to...is it similar to the torque converter hub bearing? or is it for drilled cranks?
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mshred]
#966746
05/18/11 11:04 PM
05/18/11 11:04 PM
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mopar346
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It is the convertor flange style bearing, you should be able to see the area on your crank. Post what you find and if I beat you to it I will do the same.
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: Pntastar69]
#966750
05/19/11 03:56 PM
05/19/11 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Maybe it's time for a new parts guy.
Amen to that. I was looking for a pinion seal and the kid behind the counter sounded as if he knew what he was talking about. He sold me the wrong part by looking up the specific application. Said only two were available. You guessed it he was way off. The seal he sold me was for the 489 case, my car is a 68 and the 489 wasn't available untill 69 as I hear it. Totally wrong application (?) back to the same chain different store. The guy was 56 years old and knew mopars as well as all vintage cars. Told him I had a 68 with the 742 carrier and he got me the correct part the next day. It was right in the computer (?) Same Chain different fella. Makes a difference. If your guys can only look up make and model, go find a new parts supplier. That simple. You are indeed over thinking this. Good Luck.
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Re: Does my crank need a pilot bushing or bearing?
[Re: mopar346]
#966755
05/22/11 02:04 PM
05/22/11 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Picked up the bearing this morning, went in easily and the tranny slide right up no issue. Solved, on to other things.
good to hear it worked out for both of us
So im assuming you didnt have to chop the input shaft either
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If the crank is undrilled (likely) the pilot on the input shaft will bottom on the crank before the case mates to the bellhousing.
