Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: Dave Watt]
#964660
04/04/11 09:46 PM
04/04/11 09:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,144 wellington ohio
68-scatpack-rt
In thin ice
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In thin ice
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,144
wellington ohio
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i still don't understand the secrecy. i could see if he was running a "heads up" effort and wanted to keep his personal cam specs a secret from his competition but, if he's in the business of selling cams on the open market, why the smoke and mirrors? as previously stated, a cam doctor will pour out the specs in a matter of minutes so....... i mean no disrespect to mr. six pack as i'm sure he's a nice guy, i just don't see what strategic advantage is enjoyed by the secrecy.
unions....the folks who brought you the weekend!
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: 68-scatpack-rt]
#964663
04/04/11 11:14 PM
04/04/11 11:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,152 Central NC
gch
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,152
Central NC
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Quote:
i still don't understand the secrecy.
i could see if he was running a "heads up" effort and wanted to keep his personal cam specs a secret from his competition but, if he's in the business of selling cams on the open market, why the smoke and mirrors?
as previously stated, a cam doctor will pour out the specs in a matter of minutes so.......
i mean no disrespect to mr. six pack as i'm sure he's a nice guy, i just don't see what strategic advantage is enjoyed by the secrecy.
Maybe it is a thing called loyalty and respect for one man's hard work. If he wanted to mass market it for a profit he would.
In this age of instant gratification it is'nt a stretch to see people upset by what they can't have.
Purchase his product and benefit from his expertise or don't and
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: gch]
#964664
04/05/11 06:54 AM
04/05/11 06:54 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
Quote:
i still don't understand the secrecy.
i could see if he was running a "heads up" effort and wanted to keep his personal cam specs a secret from his competition but, if he's in the business of selling cams on the open market, why the smoke and mirrors?
as previously stated, a cam doctor will pour out the specs in a matter of minutes so.......
i mean no disrespect to mr. six pack as i'm sure he's a nice guy, i just don't see what strategic advantage is enjoyed by the secrecy.
Maybe it is a thing called loyalty and respect for one man's hard work. If he wanted to mass market it for a profit he would.
In this age of instant gratification it is'nt a stretch to see people upset by what they can't have.
Purchase his product and benefit from his expertise or don't and
Other words like principles, ethics, and values come to mind as well but whatever… different strokes for different folks I guess…
I mean common, if it’s the man’s wish to not openly disseminate his hard work and knowledge all over the internet and the like, than why not leave it at that? And especially if you have no interest or plans in running his cam anyway?
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: CompSyn]
#964665
04/05/11 08:50 AM
04/05/11 08:50 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491 Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
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This topic has been gone over a few times over the years.........You guys are making this way too complicated........ The FACT is, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to run one of his cams unless you're going to race your car in the Pure Stock races AND want to be certified..........Otherwise, call someone like Dwayne Porter and have one ground.........It WILL run better AND you'll even get the cam card.........
If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: Big Squeeze]
#964666
04/05/11 09:34 AM
04/05/11 09:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
This topic has been gone over a few times over the years.........You guys are making this way too complicated........
The FACT is, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to run one of his cams unless you're going to race your car in the Pure Stock races AND want to be certified..........Otherwise, call someone like Dwayne Porter and have one ground.........It WILL run better AND you'll even get the cam card.........
that's pretty much my conclusion...his camshaft design is optimized for the rules of the class he races in, and compromises were made to fit those rules. if you aren't bound by those rules, there are probably better cams out there for you.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: CompSyn]
#964667
04/05/11 10:50 AM
04/05/11 10:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Camshaft: The camshaft must be correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed for the type of lifter (hydraulic or solid). Roller cams NOT allowed. Duration at .050" lobe lift must be within 1% of factory specs. Lift at the valve must be within 2% of factory specs... - Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race rules - link
I've read this before and question the whole validity of this "Certified Stock" claim when the fact is Bob's cam doesn't fit these guidelines. That and the fact that the guys who came up w/ these rules still jack around w/ the cams' LSAs as if that doesn't make a huge difference in how the engines run & idle. It's just a bunch of ego-driven crap to me...
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: BradH]
#964668
04/05/11 11:18 AM
04/05/11 11:18 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446 NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Camshaft: The camshaft must be correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed for the type of lifter (hydraulic or solid). Roller cams NOT allowed. Duration at .050" lobe lift must be within 1% of factory specs. Lift at the valve must be within 2% of factory specs... - Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race rules - link
I've read this before and question the whole validity of this "Certified Stock" claim when the fact is Bob's cam doesn't fit these guidelines. That and the fact that the guys who came up w/ these rules still jack around w/ the cams' LSAs as if that doesn't make a huge difference in how the engines run & idle. It's just a bunch of ego-driven crap to me...
Brad:
As much as I like those guys over there and its a lot of fun watching those cars run, I have to agree with you 100%.
MB
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: AutoEngineer]
#964669
04/05/11 11:35 AM
04/05/11 11:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
... 383-4 stock 11" converter and 3.23 gears. Weight of the car is about 3900 lbs with driver. Car will be used mainly for cruising, but perhaps sometimes for stop light races too, if some ricers are coming to challenge the Challenger and starts burning tires beside.
So what would be YOUR recommendation, what cam to use in this 383 Magnum?
IMO, the combination of 383, limited stall converter, heavy car and loooong 3.23 gears = SLUG off the line. Put some different gears in it (3.91s), stay on the small side for a cam (Bob K's cam might still be a good choice) and be careful of how the ignition curve is set up. It's still not going to be a rocket ship, but that's why headers, porting, stroker cranks, etc., all exist.
P.S. I hate COMP's Xtreme Energy hydraulic flat-tappet cams... noisy and don't rev well because they're really too aggressive for hydraulic lifters.
Last edited by BradH; 04/05/11 11:49 AM.
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: patrick]
#964673
04/05/11 01:42 PM
04/05/11 01:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
This topic has been gone over a few times over the years.........You guys are making this way too complicated........
The FACT is, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to run one of his cams unless you're going to race your car in the Pure Stock races AND want to be certified..........Otherwise, call someone like Dwayne Porter and have one ground.........It WILL run better AND you'll even get the cam card.........
that's pretty much my conclusion...his camshaft design is optimized for the rules of the class he races in, and compromises were made to fit those rules. if you aren't bound by those rules, there are probably better cams out there for you.
The rules of the class are also consistent with anyone using an otherwise stock engine.....stock unported heads, manifolds, etc. etc. So while Bob's cam is designed for PSMCDR, it works very well in any otherwise stock B or RB engine. Are there better cams out there? maybe,but if you plan on using manifolds, etc. I would imagine his works as well or better than anything else. After all he spent the last 41 years figuring it out!
As far as the rules go, if you read the whole thing, his cams are PS legal and NO, they aren't the same as the stock cam that was installed back in 1969.
As I said earlier, I don't care what the specs are (though I have no issue with those that do), all I know is all the fastest PS cars use his cam and it WORKS. 12.09 on bias plys? I thought Jim S. even ran an unofficial 11.97......that's all I need to know.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: patrick]
#964674
04/05/11 02:03 PM
04/05/11 02:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906 IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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Quote:
Quote:
This topic has been gone over a few times over the years.........You guys are making this way too complicated........
The FACT is, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to run one of his cams unless you're going to race your car in the Pure Stock races AND want to be certified..........Otherwise, call someone like Dwayne Porter and have one ground.........It WILL run better AND you'll even get the cam card.........
that's pretty much my conclusion...his camshaft design is optimized for the rules of the class he races in, and compromises were made to fit those rules. if you aren't bound by those rules, there are probably better cams out there for you.
The Vodoo 220/226 @.050 with a 475/494 lift, 112 lsa really really surprised me when i installed it, sound near stock with a TON of mid range torque and power in the 2 to 4,500K range it does fall of at around 5,500 on my very stock 383 4-speed RR
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: ademon]
#964675
04/05/11 04:46 PM
04/05/11 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This topic has been gone over a few times over the years.........You guys are making this way too complicated........
The FACT is, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to run one of his cams unless you're going to race your car in the Pure Stock races AND want to be certified..........Otherwise, call someone like Dwayne Porter and have one ground.........It WILL run better AND you'll even get the cam card.........
that's pretty much my conclusion...his camshaft design is optimized for the rules of the class he races in, and compromises were made to fit those rules. if you aren't bound by those rules, there are probably better cams out there for you.
The Vodoo 220/226 @.050 with a 475/494 lift, 112 lsa really really surprised me when i installed it, sound near stock with a TON of mid range torque and power in the 2 to 4,500K range it does fall of at around 5,500 on my very stock 383 4-speed RR
this is the cam I'd probably go with if it were mine, personally....
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: “Mr. Six-Pack” Camshaft dynoed?
[Re: patrick]
#964676
04/06/11 01:20 PM
04/06/11 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 179 Up in the North and Far Away
AutoEngineer
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 179
Up in the North and Far Away
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I talked to Bob yesterday evening and we had a very nice and long conversation about engines in general and of course about my rebuild and the targets of it. He gave a lot good advice how to make my engine perform little better, especially about the stock heads when not actually porting them. Bob is a super nice guy The end result of our discussion was, I wanted to adapt his experience in practice and I ordered a cam from him. So later this year after I have finished the resto of that 383 powered Challenger, i will take it to dyno and after that to the local strip. Let's see, if it will perform any better than what these cars made in 1970.
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