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Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #946368
03/09/11 08:09 PM
03/09/11 08:09 PM
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maximum entropy Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I have only heard about rev kits but im a lost believing you need he same pressure a he lifer/wheel?




I dont think I have ever seen a rev kit for a Mopar,
I have for chevy




i think isky is the last one.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: maximum entropy] #946369
03/09/11 08:48 PM
03/09/11 08:48 PM
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drdan Offline OP
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Thanks for all of the replies. I searched as usual to find... yes they will work, no they will self destruct if you idle too much, etc. I have a solid roller setup on a procharged SBC, but I tend to rev it a bit at the stop lights. I did run an Isky rev kit in it before the huge cam I was running broke some of the springs in the rev kit and chewed up some of the aluminum cups. Smaller cam went in and haven't had an issue. The blown 440 is the wife's car and I'm just trying to sort which cam setup I should go with using the advice of people who have done this more than I have. Thanks. Dan.

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: drdan] #946370
03/09/11 09:08 PM
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Ive got a herbert solid roller cam and lifters going in my street 440 and plan on driving it!!


74 dart sport 440 www.Csucarbs.com
Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #946371
03/09/11 09:35 PM
03/09/11 09:35 PM
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Rock Springs
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Rev kit is a band-aid
Forget those things. Run the correct springs for the application and forget those Dinosaurs.
How can they help with a poor design or cheap made lifter that the pin falls out of the wheel etc.
I dont understand the idle thing either. How can a engine at idle be hard on the lifters? Again another compromise and band-aid for a engine with oiling issue.
Keep away from cheap lifters, and keep spring pressure reasonable, get a valve spring that will control the valve's and run it.
In the end no one is going to know if it will survive or not, about as accurate as playing the lottery and expecting to win
Choose good parts, good assembly technique, along with correct part selection will go a long way.
I dont know about you but I like to make educated guess's off research and past experiance more so than "he said so"


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #946372
03/09/11 09:41 PM
03/09/11 09:41 PM
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Stanton Offline
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Quote:

I dont think I have ever seen a rev kit for a Mopar




There's a pic of a BB Isky setup in Andy's book.

The purpose of the valvespring is to get all the components back to their static or closed position after a valve event. This includes the valve, locks, retainer, rocker, pushrod and lifter. Furthermore, it has to do this without leaving any gap between the components which would result in damage.

Any spring would do the job except that as the ramp rate, lift and speed increases, so does the momentum of all the components. It takes a lot of pressure to stop all those things dead in their tracks and then push them the other way!

A rev kit has springs between the heads and the lifters and the purpose is to keep the lifters in contact with the cam. As a result, the valvesprings no longer have to deal with lifter weight so the valvespring pressures can be decreased. How much would be determined by the pressure of the rev kit springs.

Still, quality valvetrain components will yield good results without having to go the rev kit route. I'd bet that less than 1% of the Mopar roller setups out there are using rev kits.

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: Stanton] #946373
03/09/11 10:37 PM
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sorry if im going off topic here, but does isky make a rev kit for smallblock mopars? specifically for hydr. rollers?

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: Stanton] #946374
03/09/11 10:50 PM
03/09/11 10:50 PM
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MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I dont think I have ever seen a rev kit for a Mopar




There's a pic of a BB Isky setup in Andy's book.

The purpose of the valvespring is to get all the components back to their static or closed position after a valve event. This includes the valve, locks, retainer, rocker, pushrod and lifter. Furthermore, it has to do this without leaving any gap between the components which would result in damage.

Any spring would do the job except that as the ramp rate, lift and speed increases, so does the momentum of all the components. It takes a lot of pressure to stop all those things dead in their tracks and then push them the other way!

A rev kit has springs between the heads and the lifters and the purpose is to keep the lifters in contact with the cam. As a result, the valvesprings no longer have to deal with lifter weight so the valvespring pressures can be decreased. How much would be determined by the pressure of the rev kit springs.

Still, quality valvetrain components will yield good results without having to go the rev kit route. I'd bet that less than 1% of the Mopar roller setups out there are using rev kits.




I know what they are but never even knew they made
them for a Mopar.... I really doubt they would even
make one for the SB with the angle on the PR... I
never planned on using one, I just never seen one
for a Mopar... my springs have 250 seat and about
640 open... its a little less than I'm use to running
but the engine I'm building now will only run to
like 7200 rpm... real low for me

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #946375
03/10/11 01:01 AM
03/10/11 01:01 AM
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There are 2 methods of removing lash, which is what destroys rollers:
1. hydraulic lifters
2. rev kit


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Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: polyspheric] #946376
03/10/11 08:31 AM
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i know this gets a little off topic but wouldnt the total pressure on the lifter/cam be the same with a revkit as with harder springs?
I think a weak valvetrain woulod benefit a rev kit because of less deflection, but otherwise i dont see any use for it.

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: sshemi] #946377
03/10/11 11:36 AM
03/10/11 11:36 AM
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No.


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Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: polyspheric] #946378
03/10/11 12:37 PM
03/10/11 12:37 PM
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Stanton Offline
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Quote:

wouldnt the total pressure on the lifter/cam be the same with a revkit as with harder springs




No. Because of valve lash there would be no pressure from the valvespring on the lifter at all, only the pressure of the revkit spring.

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #946379
03/10/11 01:01 PM
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Quote:

Rev kit is a band-aid




i disagree. the rev kit was designed with a specific purpose in mind, and it's deletion from common use is a mistake, imo. it is not redundant. that's like saying a cylinder head is a crutch for maintaining cylinder pressure- ludicrous. the rev kit was almost universal in the "olden days". i don't ever remember seeing so many lifter failures back then, and i never experienced one when using a rev kit. i see a lifter failure every weekend at the track, nowadays. unacceptable.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: Stanton] #946380
03/10/11 04:14 PM
03/10/11 04:14 PM
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sshemi Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

wouldnt the total pressure on the lifter/cam be the same with a revkit as with harder springs




No. Because of valve lash there would be no pressure from the valvespring on the lifter at all, only the pressure of the revkit spring.




You mean that there is pressure on the lifter without revkit?

Am i a stupid mother &¤#"&???
Could someone please explain how it works.

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: sshemi] #946381
03/10/11 04:17 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

wouldnt the total pressure on the lifter/cam be the same with a revkit as with harder springs




No. Because of valve lash there would be no pressure from the valvespring on the lifter at all, only the pressure of the revkit spring.




You mean that there is pressure on the lifter without revkit?

Am i a stupid mother &¤#"&???
Could someone please explain how it works.



without a rev kit, there is no pressure on the lifter when it is on the base circle of the cam.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: maximum entropy] #946382
03/10/11 04:24 PM
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sshemi Offline
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that i do understand but how come you dont need as much spring pressures? The valvetrains mass is still the same...

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: sshemi] #946383
03/10/11 04:41 PM
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The rev kit forces the lifter to follow the cam profile at all times, and any lash that is used in the system is upstairs from the lifter.

From someone who is a big proponent of street rollers here's my advice:

If you don't want to run any given part for any given reason, then don't do it Do whatever you deem the best plan for you and whatever gives you a decent amount of confidence.

However....keep in mind some people run around on the street with 15:1 compression and aluminum rods....yet they won't use a roller because of perceived reliability issues.
As if what they already have is going to last forever

Everything we do to make more power has some sort of potential reliability sacrifice. It may not always be enough to notice, but it's always there. To think otherwise is kidding oneself.

It's all good, build your car/engine any way you want, the important thing is to have fun with it.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: sshemi] #946384
03/10/11 04:46 PM
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Quote:

that i do understand but how come you dont need as much spring pressures? The valvetrains mass is still the same...



the rev kit springs are typically 50-75 pounds of pressure directly on the lifters at all times. you could reduce the valve spring pressure by close to that amount (maybe even more, depending on rocker ratio). the rev kit spring is bearing directly on one of the heavier components of the valvetrain (granted it's on the disadvantaged side of the rocker).


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: maximum entropy] #946385
03/10/11 04:58 PM
03/10/11 04:58 PM
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but the total revkit spring + valvespring pressure is still about the same?
Is the only reason to use a revkit about the lash?

Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: sshemi] #946386
03/10/11 05:02 PM
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Quote:

but the total revkit spring + valvespring pressure is still about the same?
Is the only reason to use a revkit about the lash?



it's all about keeping the lifter wheel in contact with the cam lobe. you could run zero lash, but that's not feasible.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Will solid rollers live in a street vehicle? [Re: maximum entropy] #946387
03/10/11 09:47 PM
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1) It keeps the lifter in contact with the cam - at all times
2) It reduces the required valvespring pressures
3) It ensures that regardless of any top end breakage, there will be no loss of oil pressure due to a lifter flying out of its bore or damage to the cam or lifter from an unloaded lifter bouncing off it.

Its kind of a shame that there aren't more manufacturers producing these things !

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