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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: jbc426]
#929934
02/17/11 04:52 AM
02/17/11 04:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,486
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,486
So Cal
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Quote:
Is your pinion snubber up on the floorpan? The will cause a very rough ride.
Didn't notice he had a snubber.
Start checking the obvious stuff before throwing parts at it.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: autoxcuda]
#929935
02/17/11 12:20 PM
02/17/11 12:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,291
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,291
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Is your pinion snubber up on the floorpan? The will cause a very rough ride.
Didn't notice he had a snubber.
Start checking the obvious stuff before throwing parts at it.
I don't have/need one on my '68 slanty, and choose to run Caltracs with their +1 split mono-leafs on my '70 e-body to get away from the rough ride snubbers cause when set up properly using super stock springs.
The e-body rides as good or nicer than stock, corners way better and unless it hits larger bumps is smooth and compliant. But then, its got to handle prodigous amounts of power and handle too.
It doesn't feel as confidence inspiring in the twisties as the '68, but it actually sticks to the ground pretty darn good and could likely out corner the '68 in the hands of someone not worried about making any mistakes when pushing it to it's limits. It does feel a bit squirely with the set-up I have on it, and one must be deliberate with driver input because of it's sensitive handleing nature. I am still getting used to it and the fourspeed. It's almost more slot car like than the '68's set-up with instant reponsiveness to even the most subtle driver inputs. It has the same size front tires 225 60/ 15's, but bigger tires in the rear 325 50/15's.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: urdustd]
#929936
02/17/11 01:56 PM
02/17/11 01:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968
North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
GTXKen
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968
North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
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Quote:
While I'm not a suspension guru by any means, you have at least 2 items that will make the car ride rough. Short sidewall tires and Monroe shocks. Your probably not going to change the tire sidewall as you want handling, but do dump the Monroe shocks. Every car/truck I've put them on rides like crap. I can't afford Koni's, but they are said to work and ride pretty well. I would be more inclined to go with the Edelbrocks or something similar. Stay away from KYB's as they tend to be really hard as well.. 
I second the opinion on the shocks. I can tell you first hand that Edelbrock IAS shocks ride pretty smooth and still handle in my 3700# b-body. My set up is similar to yours but I have 10" rims out back and my leafs even have and extra main leaf in them.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: GTXKen]
#929937
02/17/11 03:13 PM
02/17/11 03:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
Montclaire
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
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I'll go back and offer an opinion on the rest of the setup, but I completely disagree as to the comments concerning
Monroe shocks. I've actually recommended them to a lot of people and prefer the Monroe-matics. Now, if the rest
of your setup is garbage, you'll get poor results, but don't blame Monroe for a worn out suspension.
Last edited by Montclaire; 02/17/11 03:14 PM.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Ron TN]
#929938
02/17/11 03:28 PM
02/17/11 03:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
Montclaire
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
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Quote:
Thanks to everyone who responded to this post. Here is what my line of thought is after all the input:
FRONT
1. Keep the tires, they are almost new and I think I can live with them
2. Dump the Monroe shocks and get some Koni's
3. Keep the original torsion bars, they appear to be good, and crank them back up (I don't believe they are bottoming out but may be); get some Magnum Force dropped spindles to get the drop I want
4. Re-bush the front end with all new poly bushings (the latest technology ones that will likely not squeak)
5. Keep the front sway bar
REAR
1. Keep the tires for the same reason as the front
2. Keep the ESPO springs since they are not heavy duty, are almost new and changing them out will probably not make much of a difference; don't think they are bottoming out, the snubber I believe is OK, although, on both counts I may be wrong; there are about 1" lowering blocks on the springs, they will come out
3. Dump the Monroe shocks and get some Koni's
4. Keep the rear sway bar (not sure that is a big contributor to the rough riding)
NEW QUESTION(s)
1. Am I on the right track for a good compromise in handling and ride?
2. Is there a big difference in handling and ride between rubber of poly bushings in the front end? If there is not much difference in ride quality with poly but the handling is better I will probably go with poly.
3. Do custom lower control arms (Firm Feel for example) and tubular upper control arms do anything for ride and are they worth it for better handling?
4. Do tubular sway bars make a difference in ride and worth it in handling?
5. There are currently poly bushings in the ESPO springs; should they be replaced with rubber?
6. I am assuming the original torsion bars, which from what I can tell are still in good condition, are worth keeping?
I think I covered everything. Thanks again for all you help and I hope others benefit from this information as well.
Ron in TN
Ok, on the front I would probably go with new torsion bars. They DO wear out, and the mopar ones are inexpensive
and good quality (made in Canada). Sway bar is fine, use poly bushings there and rubber elsewhere. INVEST IN A SET
OF OVERSIZED STRUT RODS. Use the MP high durometer rubber bushings.
One the rear, swap out to rubber bushings. Ditch the lowering blocks. Get the adjustable shackles from Just Suspension
and flip the front hangers - might get you 2 or 3 inches out of the rear.
For your new questions, there is no reason to swap to tubular sway bars or lower control arms. The sway bars really do
nothing for ride, they aid in handling. The ride comes down to the torsion bars, springs, and shocks. Use rubber where possible.
Poly is more prone to squeak than rubber, and yes, that means the graphite impregnated version as well.
Set it back to stock ride hegith and see if there's any difference first.
Last edited by Montclaire; 02/17/11 03:29 PM.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Von]
#929940
02/17/11 10:25 PM
02/17/11 10:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
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Quote:
I had a comment, but Mopar Country's avatar has me flustered. That might be the best avatar Ive ever seen...    Sorry for the hijack.. 
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Mopar_Country]
#929941
02/18/11 12:01 AM
02/18/11 12:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 260
WV.
Challenger_Nut
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 260
WV.
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Quote:
Quote:
I had a comment, but Mopar Country's avatar has me flustered. That might be the best avatar Ive ever seen... Sorry for the hijack..
Well were is the full size version?????
And a DOUBLE
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Challenger_Nut]
#929942
02/18/11 01:24 AM
02/18/11 01:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 377
Riverside, California
ghostrider
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 377
Riverside, California
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Raise the torsion bar height and get rid of the blocks on the rear before spending money, you'll get a baseline as well. If the ride is acceptable then get the front aligned and you're done.
Must remember... my humor doesn't work on forums.....my humor doesn't work on forums.
Former Mopars include
69 Super Bee, 71 Sebring, 68 Charger, 69 Charger, 78 D150, 67 300, 71 Road Runner clone, 79 T-top Doba, 67 Barracuda, 91 TC by Maserati, 68 Town & Country
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: ghostrider]
#929943
02/18/11 01:38 AM
02/18/11 01:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Now that my brain has cleared (sort of anyway) from MC's avatar, I'll throw out my .02. Ive got Caltrac and split monos under my junk. Rancho shocks in the rear, SB bars in the front, Calvert shocks in the front. Poly strut rod bushings, rubber upper and lower CA bushings. I have the front down a hair to get enough travel in the front end. Without preload on the bars the car rides very very nice. With preload it is bumpy, especially if you hit washboard pavement. I had SS springs under it for a short time and they were pretty rough. I have absolutely no complaints about the ride. Handling is pretty decent also. Not a stuck to the road type deal, but not bad. I dont have either sway bar on the car at the moment. I did have the front bar hooked up and it handled pretty decent. Id think with both front and rear bars it would be really nice. To me and maybe Im nuts but the car rides and handles better after I tied the frame.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: jcc]
#929944
02/18/11 11:13 AM
02/18/11 11:13 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
Montclaire
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,982
Scranton, PA
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Quote:
Not sure I would agree with the above reason in this case for going with new TB's.
Are you serious? They may not look like a spring, but that's exactly what they are, and their ability to
act as a spring diminishes from years of use.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Montclaire]
#929945
02/18/11 11:36 AM
02/18/11 11:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
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Quote:
Quote:
Not sure I would agree with the above reason in this case for going with new TB's.
Are you serious? They may not look like a spring, but that's exactly what they are, and their ability to
act as a spring diminishes from years of use.
It does in fact have a spring action to it in the form of twist. A torsion bar with no load is a straight bar, a torsion bar under load is a straight bar with a twist in it. As the vehicle moves up and down the bar will twist and untwist causing a spring action. If they are 40 years old then they are inherently weaker than a new one.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Ron TN]
#929947
02/18/11 01:45 PM
02/18/11 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,395
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,395
Pikes Peak Country
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If the ride is really that awful that it is beating people up, then I would vote for a bottoming out or interference issues that is making the tire sidewall ( or lack of) act as the suspension. While not the greatest available, a Monroe gas shock will improve the ride of a stock suspended mopar considerably over a standard oil shock.
Food for thought, the XV L1 kit uses t-bars that are easily 1.12 or bigger, yet they are able to produce a ride that is firm yet comfortable. The reason why they can do this is because the have shocks that are built to match the frequency of they bars and leafs they install. So shocks are a highly underrated piece of equipment.
Perhaps it would help to think of them like a camshaft. They determine the useable operating range and characteristics of the suspension, just like a cam does for an engine. And also like a cam, they need to be match to the components around it to produce optimal results.
I'd look for impacts of the lower control arm and pinion snubber as the first culprits. Turn up the bars 1-1.5 turns on the adjuster bolt, remove the snubber, see if the ride improves. If it does, you know which direction you need to go.
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