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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#929179
02/15/11 09:11 AM
02/15/11 09:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
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Quote:
Mr. Porter should post the amount of time he has in those, as well as the final tally on the bill, to reinforce the fact, that unless you are doing a resto type deal, aftermarket heads, are just better, as well as cheaper in the long run.
Monte
X2
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#929180
02/15/11 10:21 AM
02/15/11 10:21 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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I agree 100% as does Dwayne I am sure. I am pretty sure he will be posting more info on this topic. I know the job he is showing,as he and I have spoke of it, and yes, the guy wanted the original J heads.Is it " cost effective" for an old J or X head anymore. I think not. You'll see why later.Also,Dwayne will be carving up a set of old J heads I have and we are going to see what happens at that point with cost, practicality and performance. I think his results will be interesting on that one. Dwayne and I were working on some small joint projects which dealt with just this situation. Is it WORTH fixing old heads anymore? I will let him answer, but I think it will become very obvious when he starts posting some more information. I wanted to see where practicality and performance starts and stops whith a typical street driven small block performance engine. Its pretty interesting once you dig deep into it. Anyhow, this is Dwaynes post, so we'll let him do his thing. BTW. I have been involved in and around drag racing all my life, in many different venues, ownerships, partners, cars, race tracks etc. I consider Dwayne a very good personal friend, and a business " partner", as we do a fair share together. I can tell you this, He is one of the most straight up, professional and talented cylinder head/engine guys you will ever meet. You get what you pay for, and Dwaynes work is some of the best out there. I highly recommend him.  . Dont call him if you dont want to hear the truth, or the right way to do things. If you want to cut corners, he's not your guy. If you want it done right, then you'll be in good hands. ( since this was unsolicited, I sure hope I didnt make him blush...  )
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#929181
02/15/11 11:40 AM
02/15/11 11:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
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Speaking as a vastly underqualified person of this forum........ and an owner of several sets of X & J heads. This is a great thread! As I read the threads on the "Can I use my aftermarket heads OOTB?", I've got to believe that getting those mass produced latest offerings up to race standards is NOT for free. Touching up the valve job, correct application valve springs & retainers, correcting valve guide tolerances, fixing exhaust valve seat inserts and whatever other horror stories........... Without going into what it costs for me to get a set here locally freshened.....I'm just wondering how much, on average, most racers pay IN TOTAL for a set of ready-to-run aftermarket heads. I know when it comes to "Quench" and using a better port & combustion chamber design it's worth the $$$. I understand if you want to go real fast..........then you start with a "clean sheet" engine build....open wallet wide if you want the big HP. It just seems like there may be a valid case where a budget minded bracket racer street/strip guy could justify using the old iron.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#929182
02/15/11 11:47 AM
02/15/11 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Great thread and goes to show why some of these "rebuilt" engines run so poorly. I'm just glad to see Dwayne back posting some good stuff. BTW Dwayne, I'll be calling you soon for a cam for my '71 340 Demon. 
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#929183
02/15/11 01:05 PM
02/15/11 01:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Speaking as a vastly underqualified person of this forum........
and an owner of several sets of X & J heads.
This is a great thread!
As I read the threads on the "Can I use my aftermarket heads OOTB?", I've got to believe that getting those mass produced latest offerings up to race standards is NOT for free. Touching up the valve job, correct application valve springs & retainers, correcting valve guide tolerances, fixing exhaust valve seat inserts and whatever other horror stories...........
Without going into what it costs for me to get a set here locally freshened.....I'm just wondering how much, on average, most racers pay IN TOTAL for a set of ready-to-run aftermarket heads.
I know when it comes to "Quench" and using a better port & combustion chamber design it's worth the $$$.
I understand if you want to go real fast..........then you start with a "clean sheet" engine build....open wallet wide if you want the big HP.
It just seems like there may be a valid case where a budget minded bracket racer street/strip guy could justify using the old iron.
Even if you did buy the new heads and they needed the valve job touched up, or maybe better springs, or maybe a little bowl blending.............in the end, they will still usually cost less than bringing a "used up" set of J heads back to life. Now you can short cut anything and save dollars, but I am talking about doing it right. Just like the pics posted. Many would have hammered new guides in there, ground the seats, put new valves in and called it a day..... although fresh, the heads still would have been junk. Doing it "right" and doing it "cheap" can never be one in the same.
Monte
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#929184
02/15/11 03:12 PM
02/15/11 03:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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Thanks Dwayne for the post as I also enjoy reading about some of the older stuff and making it better. There is a real good post (24 pages) on the flow bench forum were a member played with a small block mopar head. If anyone is interested here's the link. http://www.flowbenchtech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=54
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: Labratt]
#929187
02/15/11 05:33 PM
02/15/11 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,129
Vermont
TrWaters
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,129
Vermont
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This is a very good post, and exactly the type of thing early hemi guys go through all the time.... fixin' up old heads.
TR Waters
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: TonyS451]
#929189
02/15/11 06:15 PM
02/15/11 06:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quality work is easy to spot - chamfered bolt holes on resurfaced heads. Minor port work is done right where the pay-offs are biggest. Thanks for the post.
Fastest 300
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: Crizila]
#929190
02/15/11 07:49 PM
02/15/11 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
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Great to see you back on here Dwayne, I have missed your posts!
Seeing this really makes me wonder why I am bothering with the factory heads I have. The deal I had done to get them machined for free fell through, so I may as well put my money into NEW heads that will last longer!
You have mail to Dwayne!
Thanks
Alan Jones
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: LA360]
#929191
02/15/11 08:05 PM
02/15/11 08:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
topfueldart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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Thanks Dwayne. Your posts hve been missed!
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
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Re: fixin' up old heads
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#929194
02/15/11 09:55 PM
02/15/11 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
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Quote:
Speaking as a vastly underqualified person of this forum........
and an owner of several sets of X & J heads.
This is a great thread!
As I read the threads on the "Can I use my aftermarket heads OOTB?", I've got to believe that getting those mass produced latest offerings up to race standards is NOT for free. Touching up the valve job, correct application valve springs & retainers, correcting valve guide tolerances, fixing exhaust valve seat inserts and whatever other horror stories...........
Without going into what it costs for me to get a set here locally freshened.....I'm just wondering how much, on average, most racers pay IN TOTAL for a set of ready-to-run aftermarket heads.
I know when it comes to "Quench" and using a better port & combustion chamber design it's worth the $$$.
I understand if you want to go real fast..........then you start with a "clean sheet" engine build....open wallet wide if you want the big HP.
It just seems like there may be a valid case where a budget minded bracket racer street/strip guy could justify using the old iron.
The 360 heads I have required or still require:
hot tanking
sand blasting
A full set of guide inserts
exhaust seat inserts
Machine for teflon guide seals
enlarge the spring seats
hone the guides
cut the seats
Machine out/extract broken exhaust manifold studs
re-machine worn corroded exhaust gasket face
Re-surface head
add in the cost of the core
What does it equal to? I probably could have a RHS head machined up for the same $$$ or less, even if it's a little more, I end up with a better cylinder head!
Alan Jones
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Still LOVIN' that SQ cam you spec'd out for me a few yrs. ago! 
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