Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: MegaDart]
#911413
01/25/11 03:39 PM
01/25/11 03:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
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Not even anywhere near close.
My old " typical build" 422 W5 motor went 9.85 at 3400 pounds. That was on leafs and a very crude low buck suspension, so no help Et wise with anything exotic suspension wise. Take 700 pounds off that and ypou are what..9 teens??????
I will call BS on that one. We don't race dynoes or hypothetical situations. In a perfect world you "might" have run those #'s but I HIGHLY doubt it. There is a lot more to tuning a combo then just subtracting weight. For example, my overachieving 555ci runs high 5.2x at 2850#. It only ran .13-.15 faster at 2400#. So your theory is bogus there. 100# = .1 does not always work. It just takes more effort in a sub 10sec car. Your combo ran good for what it was, but like you said just a "typical build"
As you know I have a dyno sheet from a w5 built from 15 years ago that shows 741hp. I have no reason to believe it was not accurate. That motor went .99x 60' in a 23 Tbucket before I bought it. It was hurt multiple times and had cam swap. It ran a best of 9.08 @ 149 @ 2650# with a burned up pg and questionable convertor. IIRC that showed 699hp on Wallace calculator which is only atool as it can not take into account all of the variables. No way to measure but I would guess at least 20-25% parasitic loss. Do the math...
All that said, I do believe the right builder could come close to 800hp in a max effort W5 build. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif)
but who would want to??
There are scores of people on here( a couple on this very post) who have seen the car run 9.85 to 9.87 exactly as i said in my post. And those same people would have no problem with the weight either. I weigh 300 pounds, or darn close. and it was an all steel car except bumpers, full interior( back seat , panels, armrests, dash, carpet,factory hood, etc, with a dana and 10 point mild steel cage.We ultimately put race brakes on the front of it to get it to 3350, but at that point the motor wasnt as fresh and it barely ran any better( 9.85, vs previous 9.86 and 9.87 at different tracks.
And yes, with 700 pounds out of it i would of bet good money it would have went 9.20 or under.And better with a 904.
A 70 cuda i know of( black, and many members here know the car) went 9.07 at 148+ with a 620 horse b1ba motor at 2500 pounds, and went 9. oh's often.
Dyno's, i have come to learn, mean absolutely nothing, except as a comparison tool before and after, if the same unit is used. Weight, MPH, and ET tell me personally how a motor runs and how much power it is making. Anything else is just conversation( interesting sometimes) but just conversation
Last edited by B3422W5; 01/26/11 12:27 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: MegaDart]
#911415
01/25/11 05:06 PM
01/25/11 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
sorry if my post was unclear. I never doubted your car ran high 9's. What I doubt is that it would run anything close to a low 9 with weight reduction alone. Let's stick with FACTS, ie first hand knowledge, not hypothetical BS and I know someone who...........yadayada
Back on topic so what is max hp of a w5 motor?? Using B3 math a "typical" build made 650? and barry has 677hp. I don't believe either are max effort but I know little about barryc's. Now let's add billet crank max ported big valve w5's sheetmetal intake, drysump oiling, big roller cam, mechanical fuel injection custom built headers and a few other tricks. What'ya got now??
Love ya Wayne ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif)
Well, the billet crank isnt going to make it notably any faster,i had max effort heads( Ryan did them and i suspect they were about as good as any around he has done or others have), so little if anything there maybe a bigger than 2.08 valve might yield something, but probably not much.For sure gotta think the fuel injection would be worth a couple of tenths, and i dont doubt a good set of headers might be worth a tenth. I ran a 700 lift roller that might could have been a little bigger( 273@50) so might be a little power there. Unsure about the intake and drysump, i plain dont know. At the end of the day its actually a pretty small head to support 400+ inches of anything ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif)
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#911417
01/25/11 07:45 PM
01/25/11 07:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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I think leaving a 14mm spark plug out is worth 12 cfm.
If you leave the valve out you can pick up another 40 or so.
Negative. I check them like that pretty often. Alot of times, they actually flow more WITH the valve........open, of course.
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: MegaDart]
#911418
01/25/11 09:41 PM
01/25/11 09:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif)
my point is you add those kinds of parts to a typical build I'd bet + - 100hp
is that 345cfm # that was thrown out anywhere near accurate?? If so 800hp should be within range. It is apples to orange comparison because BBC heads are superior by design. My 555ci has cnc 355 heads and is close to 1000hp. Obviously much larger ci then any w5.
Flow benches are like the dyno's we were talking about. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif)
My old heads( that i am aware of) were on two different benches, one they peaked at 297 if i recall, the other in the 330's. I know of another set of w5 heads that are extremely well done( as good, if not a hair better than the ones i ran) that barely got over 300 on a third and different bench again. So, who knows, two sets of well done w5 heads on 3 different benches went a little over 300, a little under 300, and in the 330's as i recall. At the end of the day we end up back at weight, MPH, and ET at the dragstrip. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh2.gif)
If i had a pair of heads that went 370 and produced 10 teens in the 1/4 mile, and another pair that went 9.80's on top of the same motor, and went 297, i am thinking the heads that went 297 must be better than the pooches that went 10 teens ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
On that note i am going home, we had our first ever 4 car day at the store, and i am thinkin Jack and Coke and the couch ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beer.gif)
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#911421
01/26/11 09:30 AM
01/26/11 09:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,668 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,668
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quote:
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I think leaving a 14mm spark plug out is worth 12 cfm.
If you leave the valve out you can pick up another 40 or so.
Negative. I check them like that pretty often. Alot of times, they actually flow more WITH the valve........open, of course.
It was just a joke. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh2.gif)
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: quick77rt ]
#911423
01/26/11 10:51 AM
01/26/11 10:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028 Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
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Until someone attempts a high rpm, sheetmetal, 2 x 4, dry sump, latest-greatest ring stack, dedicated piston design, full blown cylinder head with the proper MCSA to support the desired ci and a build specific camshaft profile, valvetrain, etc..........we will never know.
I would bet it could be done with enough loot.
Thing is, an old 15* roundy-round W8, w/a cast single and a 4150, wet sump will make 800+ by accident @400+ci, so why would anyone go through the trouble with a W5???
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: jim sciortino]
#911424
01/26/11 08:24 PM
01/26/11 08:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112 LONG ISLAND
fishy340
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
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Quote:
Until someone attempts a high rpm, sheetmetal, 2 x 4, dry sump, latest-greatest ring stack, dedicated piston design, full blown cylinder head with the proper MCSA to support the desired ci and a build specific camshaft profile, valvetrain, etc..........we will never know.
I would bet it could be done with enough loot.
Thing is, an old 15* roundy-round W8, w/a cast single and a 4150, wet sump will make 800+ by accident @400+ci, so why would anyone go through the trouble with a W5???
and i think if all the employed members on this site chipped in 100 bucks a pc,we can build that motor,and i will gladly let u use my car to t&t ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shock.gif)
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: jim sciortino]
#911425
01/26/11 08:40 PM
01/26/11 08:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
OP
I Win
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OP
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Until someone attempts a high rpm, sheetmetal, 2 x 4, dry sump, latest-greatest ring stack, dedicated piston design, full blown cylinder head with the proper MCSA to support the desired ci and a build specific camshaft profile, valvetrain, etc..........we will never know.
I would bet it could be done with enough loot.
Thing is, an old 15* roundy-round W8, w/a cast single and a 4150, wet sump will make 800+ by accident @400+ci, so why would anyone go through the trouble with a W5???
I don't think that is the issue at all, who ever posted the for sale add acted like it was nothing to make 800hp out of that combo. I think we all know it wouldn't be easy or cheap if even possible.
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: jim sciortino]
#911427
01/26/11 11:36 PM
01/26/11 11:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,384 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,384
Las Vegas
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Quote:
Until someone attempts a high rpm, sheetmetal, 2 x 4, dry sump, latest-greatest ring stack, dedicated piston design, full blown cylinder head with the proper MCSA to support the desired ci and a build specific camshaft profile, valvetrain, etc..........we will never know.
I would bet it could be done with enough loot.
Thing is, an old 15* roundy-round W8, w/a cast single and a 4150, wet sump will make 800+ by accident @400+ci, so why would anyone go through the trouble with a W5???
I think pretty much sums up my feelings. I would have to ask why bother when thier are better head choices out there in the first place ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif) . . . . . . . I will answer this question myself. Because it is winter and what else are y'all gonna talk about to pass the rime ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif)
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: 800hp with W5s ?????
[Re: Quicktree]
#911428
01/27/11 02:39 PM
01/27/11 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 84 Minnesota
Coldart
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 84
Minnesota
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Yes can do 800hp W5s! They probably used semi-finished castings, easy to put the big valves in. The pic of that intake manifold w/short runners is for some high RPM! Would it race good? NO! Would it be high maint? YES! Why do it? If you already have a bunch of this junk you might just as well waist some more money. 12yrs ago we had 360ci sprint motors w/spec heads that didn't flow as good as W5's that would do 700hp - didn't race good, backed the hp up widend the torque and we won all time. Every thing from the top of the dominators to the oil drain plug would have to be right/$ I am sick of shoveling snow! It sure is fun racin'puters in the winter time! ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Snowblow.gif)
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