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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: dennismopar73]
#907322
01/18/11 03:50 AM
01/18/11 03:50 AM
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California
mickm
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Quote:
look at the alternator might have a diode
out causing it to 'back up '
thru the system?
, as on another post check you re radiator
maybe it discharging hahahhaha
l o l 
i did. it was putting out 110v, so i plugged in the toaster oven and made a sandwhich for lunch 
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: dennismopar73]
#907323
02/05/11 08:52 PM
02/05/11 08:52 PM
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mickm
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so using a test light, i have isolated this to the circuit that is the emergency flashers and accessories.
going by the wiring diagram, this is where i'm at:
- there is no glove box light on this car.
- time delay relay, see below
- clock is unplugged, draw is still there
- map lamp switch unplugged, draw still there
- and the emergency flasher, which i couldn't find.
so 2 items i don't have, 2 out of the 5 don't make a difference when unplugged.
can someone give me a hint as to where the emergency flasher is?
i think i don't have a time delay, as there is a loose connector under the dash that matches the same configuration as shown in the diagram, and the time delay seems to simply go to the ignition switch lamp, and there is nothing connected to that. i also can't find anything in the vicinity of that connector that matches it.
i did unplug the connector coming from the steering column, thinking that maybe there was something funky with the emergency flasher switch there, and the light was still on.
so at this point, as near as i can tell, it either has to be the emergency flasher, or some small short somewhere after the fuse box.
any thoughts?
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: superbeedave]
#907325
02/05/11 09:17 PM
02/05/11 09:17 PM
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mickm
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Quote:
Lets see if i can help you with finding the emergency flasher. There is a cover down below that covers the steering column. If you remove
that cover it will likely be to the left or right tucked behind
the panel clipped in a "U" like clip. That is where it is on my 69 Bee. But don't quote me on that!
thanks for the tip, but that wasn't it. i had the brilliant idea of turning the signals on, and traced it down by the sound! it sits next to the ash tray, in a slide in clip kind of thing.
but, that wasn't it. unplugged it, and the test light is still lit.
so, unless i screwed up somehow, it seems that i have eliminated everything on the circuit, and i still have the draw.
where do i go from here?
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: superbeedave]
#907328
02/05/11 11:38 PM
02/05/11 11:38 PM
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mickm
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i don't think it is the ignition switch, i disconnected the whole ignition connector to eliminate something at the emergency flasher switch. i isolated it to that circuit by pulling fuses one by one, and the draw went away only when this one fuse is pulled, so it has to be somewhere along the circuit. i'm thinking some kind of short, pinched wire or something. but keep throwing ideas out, doesn't mean i haven't overlooked something 
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: stumpy]
#907331
02/06/11 01:57 AM
02/06/11 01:57 AM
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mickm
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Quote:
You do have the dome light switch on the door taped down or shut off somehow don't you.
yes, i just have the door shut while i'm inside. the test light glows when it's just the draw, it shines bright when i open the door. noticeable difference.
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: Andrewh]
#907332
02/06/11 02:00 AM
02/06/11 02:00 AM
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mickm
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Quote:
if I read it right, it also goes to the headlight switch?
also a headlight relay on the other side.
so you pull that fuse and the light goes out?
did you try the trick to figure out amps?
may have missed that, i didn't see that it goes to the headlight switch, i'll look again.
yes, pull the fuse, and the test light connected between the (disconnected) negative battery cable and the negative post goes out.
what trick about amps? may have missed that in an earlier post.
i know it's a small but reasonable draw, because if i leave the battery connected, it will be drained in about two weeks.
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: Andrewh]
#907334
02/06/11 01:50 PM
02/06/11 01:50 PM
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mickm
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Quote:
wire a 1.0 ohm 10 watt resistor in series with the negitive cable.
so one end of the resistor on the battery, one end on the negitive cable.
this?
to protect the multi-meter...
i'm not even using it at this point, just a simple test light.
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: mickm]
#907335
02/06/11 02:45 PM
02/06/11 02:45 PM
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Posts: 606
Montana
Yancy Derringer
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If I read this right, you have GOT to figure out how to split the wiring. Frankly, I doubt it's in the emergency flasher stuff, but some of the wiring is related
The way I read, the conductor comes off the fuse box ---D31-18BK-- AND FEEDS one terminal if the emergency flasher connector. THAT SAME terminal splits off with D3-19P which feeds one side of the stop lamp. THAT TERMINAL splits the wire off M1-18P to a 3 wire connector labled "to dome lamp wiring (body.) That connector should be over near the left underdash, maybe in the kick panel. It is the first thing I'd pull, the second thing is the headlight connector.
Get into the kick panels and sill plate, and examine for corrosion and moisture under there. Pull the dome light switches or at least the wiring off.
I would get rid of the "key in" buzzer "just because."
the shop manual is vague. It pictures the standard flasher up in the dash ? to the left? of the lighter, I don't see the emergency.
If you can wire up enough stuff to get the emergency to flash, that's the best way to find it.---listen for it. Shop manual is referring to removing fuse panel and dropping out of way, so I'd think emerg. flash is back in there by/ behind the glove box
Still another manual reference says it's on the lower panel to the right of the steering column.
I would think the time delay relay/ column light could be a real suspect, but I guess you've disconnected the column?
Time for a simple easy follow list:
What fuse/ fuses drops the problem?
What have you disconnected, harness, etc, that does or does not drop the problem?
You don't have a console?
This should NOT be that difficult to find. Stick with us.
'S been 30 years since I was under a 69/ 70 Roadrunner.
Last edited by Yancy Derringer; 02/06/11 03:12 PM.
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: mickm]
#907336
02/06/11 03:46 PM
02/06/11 03:46 PM
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Posts: 8,714
Andrewh
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Quote:
Quote:
wire a 1.0 ohm 10 watt resistor in series with the negitive cable.
so one end of the resistor on the battery, one end on the negitive cable.
this?
to protect the multi-meter...
i'm not even using it at this point, just a simple test light.
The problem is there can always be potiential to draw voltage. so the light will come on.
you may be chasing a normal draw. Until you check to see how much current you are pulling you have no idea.
the fact your door switches make it burn brighter tells me you are not drawing much current right now.
no point in wasting time if it is less than .4 amps. But till you run an amp check, you have no idea and could just be wasting time.
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: Andrewh]
#907337
02/06/11 08:44 PM
02/06/11 08:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Yancy Derringer
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Quote:
The problem is there can always be potiential to draw voltage. so the light will come on.
you may be chasing a normal draw. Until you check to see how much current you are pulling you have no idea.
the fact your door switches make it burn brighter tells me you are not drawing much current right now.
no point in wasting time if it is less than .4 amps. But till you run an amp check, you have no idea and could just be wasting time.
THIS IS NOT TRUE AND MAKES NO SENSE
FIRST, there is NOT "always the potential to draw voltage" (so the light will come on.)
IF the system is "clean" that is, HAS no parasitic draw, the lamp will not light, PERIOD.
I'm speaking here using the "typical" parts store 12V test lamp, which typically uses something like a no57, or a cartridge type lamp
If it uses an LED or some other tiny "wheat" bulb, you may have a point
Quote:
you may be chasing a normal draw. Until you check to see how much current you are pulling you have no idea.
Once again, a "decent" 12v test lamp, like a 194 or 57, etc, SHOULD NOT LIGHT if things are normal. There is no such thing as a "normal draw" that will light a lamp -- in these old cars
Quote:
the fact your door switches make it burn brighter tells me you are not drawing much current right now.
This statement depends somewhat on how much current the test lamp itself draws. It could be very little, could be a lot.
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no point in wasting time if it is less than .4 amps.
This is about the silliest thing I've ever read. .4, ALMOST 1/2 AN AMP is a HUGE load for a car that may be parked for long periods of time. Let's say you have a 100 amp hour rated battery. Negating the "20 hour" rating, and just using straight math, this means that a 100 amp-hour battery WOULD ONLY LAST 200 hours!!! (100/ .5) THAT IS ONLY AROUND 8 DAYS!!!!
To put this into simple terms, IF YOU HAVE A PARASITIC DRAW OF .4 AMPS, IT'S WAY TOO MUCH!!!
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: Yancy Derringer]
#907338
02/06/11 11:45 PM
02/06/11 11:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,714
Andrewh
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Quote:
Quote:
The problem is there can always be potiential to draw voltage. so the light will come on.
you may be chasing a normal draw. Until you check to see how much current you are pulling you have no idea.
the fact your door switches make it burn brighter tells me you are not drawing much current right now.
no point in wasting time if it is less than .4 amps. But till you run an amp check, you have no idea and could just be wasting time.
THIS IS NOT TRUE AND MAKES NO SENSE
FIRST, there is NOT "always the potential to draw voltage" (so the light will come on.)
IF the system is "clean" that is, HAS no parasitic draw, the lamp will not light, PERIOD.
I'm speaking here using the "typical" parts store 12V test lamp, which typically uses something like a no57, or a cartridge type lamp
If it uses an LED or some other tiny "wheat" bulb, you may have a point
Quote:
you may be chasing a normal draw. Until you check to see how much current you are pulling you have no idea.
Once again, a "decent" 12v test lamp, like a 194 or 57, etc, SHOULD NOT LIGHT if things are normal. There is no such thing as a "normal draw" that will light a lamp -- in these old cars
I miss spoke, my point was what if this is a normal draw, not a short. I disagree that there are no draws even in old cars, that are considered normal.
Quote:
the fact your door switches make it burn brighter tells me you are not drawing much current right now.
This statement depends somewhat on how much current the test lamp itself draws. It could be very little, could be a lot.
Quote:
no point in wasting time if it is less than .4 amps.
This is about the silliest thing I've ever read. .4, ALMOST 1/2 AN AMP is a HUGE load for a car that may be parked for long periods of time. Let's say you have a 100 amp hour rated battery. Negating the "20 hour" rating, and just using straight math, this means that a 100 amp-hour battery WOULD ONLY LAST 200 hours!!! (100/ .5) THAT IS ONLY AROUND 8 DAYS!!!!
To put this into simple terms, IF YOU HAVE A PARASITIC DRAW OF .4 AMPS, IT'S WAY TOO MUCH!!!
my mistake, not sure where I got that number from, it was the number I remember, but might be .04. regardless, that number doesn't really work either. I expect my new car to sit 2 to 3 weeks with its normal draw before killing the battery to the point where I cannot start. Assuming a 50 amp hour battery, I would expect a draw of less than .14 ish, so I guess around .1 would cover me for 2 weeks and still leave enough to start.
Again, my point is, figure out how much draw you actually have before wasting time chasing it down.
IF it is not significant, then it isn't your problem.
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Re: chasing an electrical draw
[Re: Andrewh]
#907340
02/07/11 01:09 AM
02/07/11 01:09 AM
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Posts: 4,179
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mickm
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i know this draw is significant. 1) when i pull the emergency flasher fuse, the test light goes out. 2) pull any other fuse, the light stays on, so it is in that circuit. 3) leave the cable connected and the battery is dead within 2 weeks. 4) disconnect the battery cable and no problems after many weeks of sitting. it will be next weekend before i will have the time to get to it again, so i will go at it then. yancy: - emergency flasher-accessories fuse is the issue - so far, i have disconnected 1) the map light in the dash 2) the emergency flashers, (i did find it by turning on the flashers and listening for it) 3) the clock light 4) the glove box light is on this circuit, but my car doesn't have one. 5) the time delay is also on this circuit, but also doesn't have one. 6) the ignition connector from the steering column with all that disconnected, the light has stayed on. nothing so far has shut the light off. there is no console. i'll follow through with the things on your list next weekend, and report back. thanks for all the time and tips 
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. I'd just keep on unplugging connectors until you stop the draw then zero in on where on that particular circuit something is improperly energized/grounded.