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Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903270
02/12/11 02:21 AM
02/12/11 02:21 AM
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New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Some actual progress today...I am moving alot slower than most of you guys, but I am trying. I am just going very slow and trying to measure everything accurately and cross checking all measurements. So far so good.

These are 1/8" plates I made to just reinforce the rocker area more:


The crossmember installed and welded:







I hope to get some more done this weekend. I will post pics as soon as I can.

Thanks,
greg.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903271
02/12/11 03:10 AM
02/12/11 03:10 AM

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Great looking welds but a small piece of advice, you should just tack weld all your pieces until you get everything mocked up and into position where everything fits and lines up because if you have to adjust something you will not be happy, trust me I made that mistake and I was not happy. Remember.....progress is progress.

Re: building back half car [Re: ] #903272
02/12/11 03:39 AM
02/12/11 03:39 AM
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Menomonee Falls
DemonDust Offline
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Quote:

Great looking welds but a small piece of advice, you should just tack weld all your pieces until you get everything mocked up and into position where everything fits and lines up because if you have to adjust something you will not be happy, trust me I made that mistake and I was not happy. Remember.....progress is progress.




Just use some heavy tacks for time being. It'd suck if the DS didn't clear and you had to cut that all out....

Vertical Downs

Otherwise looks great


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Re: building back half car [Re: DemonDust] #903273
02/12/11 03:43 AM
02/12/11 03:43 AM
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Just curious how you located the cross member without knowing where the rear end will be?


Edit.....

I went back and reread everything, I scrolled over the part where you explained the marks on the tape.

You're a better man than me I'd feel unsure doing everything without having a physical car there lol

Last edited by R5P7Duster; 02/12/11 12:59 PM.

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Re: building back half car [Re: DemonDust] #903274
02/12/11 02:35 PM
02/12/11 02:35 PM
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Interesting thread and to the OP.

But I'm curious, to those that do these modifications for a living or whatever, what price range would this kind of work (4 link back half)cost if the car was dropped off at a shop, not including rear end, brakes?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: building back half car [Re: jcc] #903275
02/13/11 12:16 AM
02/13/11 12:16 AM
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Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Quote:

Interesting thread and to the OP.

But I'm curious, to those that do these modifications for a living or whatever, what price range would this kind of work (4 link back half)cost if the car was dropped off at a shop, not including rear end, brakes?




I am not sure what the shop cost would be, but I remember reading not too long ago that a shop was charging 3-4,000 for the backhalf conversion. I think it might have been on Yellowbullet.com, but not sure what part of the country it was in. The price seems to vary a huge amount based on location (at least with the cost of Cage labor).

I am curious as well what shops would charge for the conversion alone.


Thanks for the constructive comments on the tacking. I will be doing that with the rest of the build.

R5p7: I am assuming you mean that welding vertical down is a no-no?? I thought that I read that is the way to do a vertical weld. Please advise...I don;t want to compromise penetration or strength . Also, do you weave a joint like that or straight stich? I did a slight weave on these.

Greg.

Last edited by Chargerfan68; 02/13/11 12:32 AM.

1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903276
02/13/11 02:12 AM
02/13/11 02:12 AM
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Mooresburg, Tn
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Yep, weld from the bottom up. Welding from top to bottom makes a pretty weld and its easier to do (you are not blocking your work with the mig gun), but you risk not getting good penetration. Slow the wire down a little or turn up the heat (just shy of burning through), and you won't have the puddle running all over.
Looks good so far. and take all the time you need to get it right. The few days or weeks that you save at this point will not seem worth it in when you're haveing to deal with some thing thats not set up correctly from the get go.
Brian Dunnigan

Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903277
02/13/11 01:42 PM
02/13/11 01:42 PM
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Menomonee Falls
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Quote:



R5p7: I am assuming you mean that welding vertical down is a no-no?? I thought that I read that is the way to do a vertical weld. Please advise...I don;t want to compromise penetration or strength . Also, do you weave a joint like that or straight stich? I did a slight weave on these.

Greg.




Yes Vertical down welding is a big no no on structural components. If you are doing light sheetmetal work it is applicable, but with something your life is relying on, I'd keep it all vert up.

As stated above you can turn the wire down a bit and be at the edge of short circuit welding almost to globular transfer that will help in keeping the puddle from building to quickly or you can turn the voltage down but you will have to move quicker.

On a vert up weld, you want to move from piece to piece and pause for a brief moment. The heavier the material the longer the pause. On thick steel 3/4" and up you can expect to pause til the count of 3. On this this stuff I'd say maybe the count of 1. Get a couple practice pieces of steel the same thickness to practice with. You'll get the hang of it.

Once you get the hang of it you won't need to count in your head anymore you'll be able to read the puddle and know when to move...

Last edited by R5P7Duster; 02/13/11 04:52 PM.

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Re: building back half car [Re: DemonDust] #903278
02/14/11 01:44 AM
02/14/11 01:44 AM
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Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:



R5p7: I am assuming you mean that welding vertical down is a no-no?? I thought that I read that is the way to do a vertical weld. Please advise...I don;t want to compromise penetration or strength . Also, do you weave a joint like that or straight stich? I did a slight weave on these.

Greg.




Yes Vertical down welding is a big no no on structural components. If you are doing light sheetmetal work it is applicable, but with something your life is relying on, I'd keep it all vert up.

As stated above you can turn the wire down a bit and be at the edge of short circuit welding almost to globular transfer that will help in keeping the puddle from building to quickly or you can turn the voltage down but you will have to move quicker.

On a vert up weld, you want to move from piece to piece and pause for a brief moment. The heavier the material the longer the pause. On thick steel 3/4" and up you can expect to pause til the count of 3. On this this stuff I'd say maybe the count of 1. Get a couple practice pieces of steel the same thickness to practice with. You'll get the hang of it.

Once you get the hang of it you won't need to count in your head anymore you'll be able to read the puddle and know when to move...




Thanks for the advice R5P7. I will follow your words. Is there anything I need to do for the welds I ran vert. down? Or they will be o.k. ? Also, I could slow the wire speed down some or (did you mean)turn the heat "UP"? You stated "down" but maybe that was not what you meant??

Thanks,
Greg.


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Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903279
02/15/11 01:24 PM
02/15/11 01:24 PM
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It should be, turn the wire and heat down not "or". Since the vert up is a slower process it has time to dig in and fill at lower heat and slower filler material. It will take a little practice to dial the welder in, once you get it dialed in write the settings down somewhere so you always have them.

When changing from flat to vert the heat needs to be turned down. Overhead you can still run the same settings as flat but you gotta move

For the most part the E70 series wire I'm assuming you're using can weld pretty decent in all positions.

Edit....

I looked at your pics again. The verts on the plate should be fine since you were burning edge of the material. But the verts on the tube I'd hit with the grinder and redo them. Just for the simple fact that when you were going down the puddle doesn't have enough time to get into the joint. I'm willing to bet money that some of that joint is untouched, it's just the edges of the weld that are actually fused.

Now there are gonna be guys that have done vert downs and they are fine with that and their cars are holding together and have no problems.

Vibration can wreak havoc on poor welds and where its not properly fused in joints is where the crack will start. Then it's only a matter of time before the whole part fails.


Last edited by R5P7Duster; 02/15/11 01:36 PM.

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Re: building back half car [Re: DemonDust] #903280
02/16/11 01:03 AM
02/16/11 01:03 AM
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Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Quote:

It should be, turn the wire and heat down not "or". Since the vert up is a slower process it has time to dig in and fill at lower heat and slower filler material. It will take a little practice to dial the welder in, once you get it dialed in write the settings down somewhere so you always have them.

When changing from flat to vert the heat needs to be turned down. Overhead you can still run the same settings as flat but you gotta move

For the most part the E70 series wire I'm assuming you're using can weld pretty decent in all positions.

Edit....

I looked at your pics again. The verts on the plate should be fine since you were burning edge of the material. But the verts on the tube I'd hit with the grinder and redo them. Just for the simple fact that when you were going down the puddle doesn't have enough time to get into the joint. I'm willing to bet money that some of that joint is untouched, it's just the edges of the weld that are actually fused.

Now there are gonna be guys that have done vert downs and they are fine with that and their cars are holding together and have no problems.

Vibration can wreak havoc on poor welds and where its not properly fused in joints is where the crack will start. Then it's only a matter of time before the whole part fails.






Thanks a ton for the guidance. I am going to take your advice and grind down the verts on the tubes and re-weld them the way you said. Once I practice on some extra tubes to get the settings right, I'll use those to reweld them.

On a joint like that, do you weave back and forth as you move up, or just in the middle and straight up .

Thanks again,
Greg.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903281
02/16/11 05:16 PM
02/16/11 05:16 PM
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Yeah you will want to do a weave from one piece to the other pausing briefly to let it fill a bit.

It's hard to explain without being able to show someone, but once you start practicing you'll see. if you go to fast the sides of the weld will be cold lap, if you go to slow obviously it will fall out. When you get the welder set right and figure out travel speed the edges of the weld will flow into the base metal like your vert downs.


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Re: building back half car [Re: DemonDust] #903282
02/17/11 03:21 AM
02/17/11 03:21 AM
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New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Quote:

Yeah you will want to do a weave from one piece to the other pausing briefly to let it fill a bit.

It's hard to explain without being able to show someone, but once you start practicing you'll see. if you go to fast the sides of the weld will be cold lap, if you go to slow obviously it will fall out. When you get the welder set right and figure out travel speed the edges of the weld will flow into the base metal like your vert downs.




Thanks again. I was busy tonite notching out the second frame rail for fitment. It is done and I will practice my vert-ups tomorrow night. When I am comfortable with them, I will weld them up. I mocked up the rear sheetmetal and if I place the rails back where I had them in, It will all line up great. I will double check this before I final weld the rails in.

No pictures yet...but soon.
Greg.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903283
02/20/11 11:50 PM
02/20/11 11:50 PM
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Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Well, I got some more work done tonight. I installed the rear crossmember and the shock crossmember. I checked all measurements again and everything fits up good. Here.s what it looks like now:





Vert-up this time. Not pretty, but I think good penetration. I'll take any advice.



These are some vertical-up welds practiced on 1/8" inside 90deg, and 16 ga inside 90 deg steel. Does not look great, but I put it in a press to test for destruction and it looks to have held up. No breakage at the welds and the steel bent around them.




Thanks for looking,
Greg.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903284
02/21/11 12:07 AM
02/21/11 12:07 AM
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gulfport, ms, west mi
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Looks like your coming along fine with your project. Is the cage next or sheet metal to make it look like a car again?



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Re: building back half car [Re: rowin4] #903285
02/21/11 12:24 AM
02/21/11 12:24 AM
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Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Quote:

Looks like your coming along fine with your project. Is the cage next or sheet metal to make it look like a car again?






Thanks, the next step is to put on the sheetmetal and tie the rear frame rails into the valence xmember. It was mocked up and fitted. Just need to clecko the panels back on, and weld the crossmember to rails. Then I need to save a little more for the cage bars, and 4 link ends (man they are expensive. $450 for set of 8). I need to finish up little loose ends between now and next month until my next round of UPS deliveries.

Greg.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903286
02/23/11 01:59 AM
02/23/11 01:59 AM
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Keep the pictures coming, This is better than a magazine story.
the only advice would be to install the wheel tubs higher then you think so you can go lower in the rear without any problems. and or bigger tires if you want.

Good luck!

Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903287
02/23/11 02:03 AM
02/23/11 02:03 AM
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More progress tonight.

I put on the sheetmetal to once again fine tune the panels and index them for easy final installation. It is coming together...and the panels were a little easier than I expected. Certainly not just bolt them on and go. Definitely a ton of move them this way and that way to get them all lined up. But, no big surprises. Only thing is I might have to trim the rocker (horizontal area) adjacent to where it spots to the pinch weld. It is a little to wide and it is kicking the lower quarter area out to far to line up with the door and forward rocker. I guess to be expected. AMD stuff is great in general.

Here are some pics before they come off again for other finishing items before they go on for good.








More later on. Thanks for looking,
Greg.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: building back half car [Re: 70blackfish] #903288
02/23/11 02:08 AM
02/23/11 02:08 AM
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Chargerfan68 Offline OP
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Quote:

Keep the pictures coming, This is better than a magazine story.
the only advice would be to install the wheel tubs higher then you think so you can go lower in the rear without any problems. and or bigger tires if you want.

Good luck!




I am going with the 40" tubs and I am going to install them as high as the rear filler panel area will allow me to. I should have about 4 " clearance and I am running a 32"X 16 wide slick.

Thanks for the advice,
Greg.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: building back half car [Re: Chargerfan68] #903289
02/23/11 02:18 AM
02/23/11 02:18 AM
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gulfport, ms, west mi
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First off I didn't know your car was a Charger, second , boy what a difference a day makes, keep us up dated with the pictures.



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