Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
#900236
01/09/11 02:14 PM
01/09/11 02:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862 Iowa State fan
kilroy
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super stock
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OP
super stock
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Ok, Im upgrading my disk in my 4 speed to a ram 900 series. It requires a steel flywheel to run. I dont have the $ to buy a new $300 steel flywheel. I do have enough to buy the disk and a $60 steel insert for my old aluminum wheel.
Problem is Im running a eddy headed 440 in a 3800-4000lb charger with 3.55 rear gears.
Will this be a disaster as far flywheel inertia getting a heavy car moving or should I be ok?
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: 9 Sec Phill]
#900238
01/09/11 02:22 PM
01/09/11 02:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862 Iowa State fan
kilroy
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Anyone have real street or strip experience with aluminum flywheel in or near these specs?
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: 9 Sec Phill]
#900239
01/09/11 02:23 PM
01/09/11 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,491 Florida STAYcation
dOc …
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
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Posts: 30,491
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Don't do it, You knew the answer already. to heavy of a vehicle and to high a gear.
x2 ... ... you should be running a REAL HEAVY steel wheel !
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: dOc …]
#900240
01/09/11 02:30 PM
01/09/11 02:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862 Iowa State fan
kilroy
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YA, dang I thought so but.... crap I hate common sense. Anyway most of these cars are this weight, ive actually shave a couple of hundred pounds. Car used to weigh 4250 but I cut crash beams out of doors (38lbs!!!), aluminum Master Cylinder, mini starter, aluminum heads and water pump housing, removed factory insulation, crash bumperets and brackets, and more I cant think of right now. So to say a real heavy flywheel is a little ridicules. plus steel flywheels aren't much different weight than factory stuff.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: kilroy]
#900241
01/09/11 02:30 PM
01/09/11 02:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293 Northeast, Alpine, NY
9 Sec Phill
On a road near you
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On a road near you
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
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Quote:
Anyone have real street or strip experience with aluminum flywheel in or near these specs?
Mine was 3000lb duster with a sb and 3.91 gears. It killed it. If I had some 5.38 It might have been a differant story.
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: kilroy]
#900245
01/09/11 09:55 PM
01/09/11 09:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690 New Hampshire, USA
oldiron
mopar
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mopar
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New Hampshire, USA
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I don't see any problem with it. I don't know why a steel FW is required. The AL wheel has a steel insert. As far as stored energy, the flywheel is just part of the rotating mass and all of the energy is stored in your gas tank to begin with. To increased the energy stored you just need to increase the launch rpms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotational_energy) The sintered iron will be pretty grabby and if you plan on racing its going to be hard on parts. You can control some of that with air in the tires and how quick you shift. Have fun! Greg
66 Belvedere Vert, 4 Speed/Jerico, slowly, very slowly, getting faster - NA LD Wedge New New Best: 10.56 @129 68 B'cuda 4 gear Jerico - Another New Best of 9.86 & Trying to slow up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jDLKwd9Gs
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: kilroy]
#900250
01/11/11 12:32 AM
01/11/11 12:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,558 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Rittman Ohio
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I have had this conversation in the pits at a few UMTR races and some say that an aluminum wheel may lose a little at the hit but it recovers quicker between gears I have a lightened steel unit in my car at only 22# which seems like the best of both worlds.Although my flywheel weighs more than some of the complete assemblies out there from Advanced and Bonifonte custom jobs. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: 68LAR]
#900254
01/13/11 09:19 PM
01/13/11 09:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,892 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
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Weddington, N.C.
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Kilroy, Borg & Beck = no centrifugal apply leverage plus the rotating mass is higher than a typical centrifugal clutch/pp set up, I don't think I'd want to bolt a heavy countersprung mass to the aluminum polt holes and try any kind of modulation from a light....A Modern design dual surface friction disc like South Bend would be my choice for something easy to shift fast with high holding force and lighter mass. Higher rotating mass counteracts the reason for going to a light flywheel in the first place. I haven't switched back to a 4 speed for my 517 yet because I haven't researched enough of the options for clutches, I would consider a light flywheel because I have pretty unholy torque but to my mind you have to have some initial 'give' like a diaphagm clutch would have before the bite. You have to be careful with centrifugal assists as well (longs can fall into this category too).....during part throttle shifting you could see some slippage because you're not generating ebnough rotating inertia to engage the counterweights.....to me it'd be a tough balancing act to get a 'just right' street strip clutch but there are experts that know a lot more about this than I do....i'm just an expert at shifting I know what I'm looking for I just don't know if I can get it...but when I'm ready I'll talk to the south bend boyz first!
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: Streetwize]
#900255
01/13/11 10:35 PM
01/13/11 10:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 587 IL . usa
cjs69mope
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mopar
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I am running a all aluminum fly wheel from ram with the steel insert and the engine is a street /strip 493 Rb with hemi 8 bolt crank ,and 10.8 compression . solid roller cam,Indy Sr heads. the trans is 18 spline hemi 4 speed in a stock heavy 69 dodge charger with 4:10 detroit locker This is been my experiance First the car launches hard on the street with drag radials , never had the car together with a heavy fly wheel so i have nothing to compare it to . the clutch is a dual friction center force works great i love the light pedal feel and shifts so smooth that some time i don't think it got the gear because so quick . the only thing i feel is at very low speeds less than 2000rpm the car seams to have a pulsing feel to the drive train , i have read that this is a side affect of low speed inertia you are talking about . But all the other benefits seam good, car revs real quick like a small stock car engine .
1969 Dodge Charger
1969 Dodge Superbee
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: cjs69mope]
#900256
01/14/11 01:56 PM
01/14/11 01:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53 Jensen Beach, Florida
pressureangle
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member
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I ran a Hayes aluminum/steel insert FW with 3400# 3- finger Direct Connection pressure plate in my '68 Charger 440. It was easy enough to drive with 4.10 gears but required much more care with the left leg. With 3.55's I wouldn't want my driving to be 75% traffic. On my new 'touring' build, I went back to an all steel flywheel, centerforce clutch and a 505" motor. If I was racing any more than infrequently, I'd still be using the aluminum wheel.
Why do I torture myself so?
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: pressureangle]
#900257
01/14/11 08:09 PM
01/14/11 08:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862 Iowa State fan
kilroy
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Everyone THANKS for the info and the real world experience, They have really helped me decide! I also searched UMTRNorth.com and searched for aluminum flywheel in the clutch section and came up with some good info too!
Later this spring (once it gets warmer here in IA and I can drop the trans in the drive to my neighbor horror, that when its funnest) I will update with my result.
Keep it coming if you have more. Im glad this sparks some interest with people.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: kilroy]
#900258
01/14/11 10:17 PM
01/14/11 10:17 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,414 St. Croix, US Virgin Islands
David_in_St_Croi
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top fuel
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St. Croix, US Virgin Islands
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On our 70 RR I had the flywheel lightened but it was starting at 40 pounds. I felt the improvement was worth it. I notice you stated that the Hays site recommended steel flywheel or steel insert. Well, that is what you will have with the aluminum flywheel with the steel insert, so you are good there.
What type of disc is the 930 series? Is it sintered iron? I tried to find it on the Hays site but they do not admit it exists as far as I could find.
We have a Tim Hyatt built slipper clutch based upon Mcleod components. It is adjustable with a sintered iron clutch so you tighten it up for the street, loosen it for the track. We run a 4.3 rear in our RR so I do not know just how bad the 3.55 will be. If you have to slip a sintered iron disc on a regular basis due to the 3.55 it will not last long from what I have been told by people more informed than me. Go to UMTRnorth and give Tim Hyatt a call, his phone number is on there. He might be able to set you up for less than you think, even if it is just the disc. You might be able to get a Mcleod disc through him for the cost of the RAM. The Mcleod I believe are considerably thicker so last longer.
Another thought, you have not mentioned what you have for a pressure plate. That is another part of the equation. Wound up for the street our clutch hits hard but the street tires will always slip to save the rest of the drivetrain. What I like about it is that the clutch will be there at the end of the night, it is tough.
UMTRnorth.com is a great resource.
Was your clutch slipping?
Last edited by David_in_St_Croi; 01/14/11 10:20 PM.
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Re: Will aluminum flywheel be a disaster?
[Re: David_in_St_Croi]
#900259
01/15/11 12:40 AM
01/15/11 12:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862 Iowa State fan
kilroy
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RAM stuff is kinda hard to bring up on jeg/summit pages. The 930 is a dual friction type disk with organic/metallic compounds. A hybrid of their 900 series and told them the same story as below. I email RAM tech told them my situation they suggested 900 series and said the 900 would be good for 650 HP using their BB plate which specs like mine. and yes the insert in the aluminum wheel will be the fixer for the steel part of it.
I originally tried a diaphragm clutch (2400#lbs) with a 6 paddle disk. It was very chattery which could be lived but it did not hold the power in any gear (even high and not completely even in low), and just to head off speculation yes on both clutches I double and triple check clearancse (disk and t/o bearing) and oil leaks.
Now Im running Hayes BB w/ 2750#lbs static with a 850#lbs @ 6k rpm assists. They supplied an organic disk that has been very tame to say the least. No longer slipping in high or low but when I am really hard on in second or try to heat the tires in a second gear burnout it wont hold then. Otherwise its adequate. This is the reason for the switch
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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