Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
#900104
01/09/11 10:53 AM
01/09/11 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 815 Alexandria, NJ
WayneM
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 815
Alexandria, NJ
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Happy New Year to all in Moparts land! >>>> Getting on soap box <<<<
As it's been since E-town's permanant racing numbers began, I have been getting the annual renewal form soon after the new year. It's a happy reminder that spring is coming. I haven't noticed in the past, and I don't think there was, but now there's a release agreement as part of the points/ permanant number renewal form. I guess it's similar to what you glanced at and signed many times when entering the pits- what I call "the clipboard". I know I never had time to really digest the agreement on the clipboard, so I just glanced at it and signed it and knew it waived all sorts of liability and reminded you that racing is dangerous, which we all know. Now that there's an agreement here that I can read, I did notice some terms that I hadn't noticed, and wondered if any other racers had noticed? The main item that's disturbing is the repeated mention of "NEGLIGENT". The agreement wants me to agree to negligence, even if it results in death. In #5 and 6, the agreement asks for a release in the event of "NEGLIGENT RESCUE OPERATIONS" and all acts of negligence. This term is used way too many times, and I feel uncomfortable agreeing to it. Is E-town looking to scale back ambulance service? has there been any changes in weekly activities? Are they just covering their butts in the wake of the unfortunate occurances that has taken place there? I just wanted to see if anyone else has seen this form, and how others feel about such an agreement? I'm probably just going to sign it, but I will feel differently the relationship that exists with the track. Maybe one will have to do a pre race check to see what personnel are there in regards to safety. I will post a copy of the agreement as soon as I can get my scanner up.
>>>> Off soap box <<<<
2014 Durango R/T 2004 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW SLT short quad Cummins 6 speed 1998 Dodge Durango SLT 5.2 1971 Plymouth Duster- <<<<<MOPAR SPOKEN HERE>>>>>
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: WayneM]
#900105
01/09/11 11:39 AM
01/09/11 11:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 872 NJ
SSDAcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 872
NJ
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liability... When an accident happens, nobody wants to be liable. And englishtown has had their share the last few years!
Insurance rates probably went up... not good for the sport
SS/DA 1924
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: WayneM]
#900106
01/09/11 08:16 PM
01/09/11 08:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,732 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,732
Bitopia
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I am not sure if in a court of law you can sign away "negilence".
Everyone, except a good simaritin(sp??), and even they have to exhibit non carelessness, is expected not to be negilent. I understand their pre-emptive concern, but I suspect it is just to reduce anyone getting ideas they won the lottery if the safety crew uses the wrong bandaid. 1/2 cent
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: jcc]
#900108
01/09/11 08:37 PM
01/09/11 08:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,491 Florida STAYcation
dOc …
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,491
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
I am not sure if in a court of law you can sign away "negilence".
SOUNDS LIKE they have a bunch of HACKS running that track ... ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif)
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: emarine01]
#900109
01/09/11 09:37 PM
01/09/11 09:37 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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So does this mean you can't park a crane in the shutdown area and then get sued for it?
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: ]
#900110
01/09/11 10:07 PM
01/09/11 10:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,737 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,737
Fulton County, PA
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I would expect it to be a standard form, supplied by the insurance company, and is the same as the one you sign entering the pits or competing at any racetrack insured by the same company.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: CMcAllister]
#900113
01/10/11 01:04 AM
01/10/11 01:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,491 Florida STAYcation
dOc …
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,491
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
I would expect it to be a standard form, supplied by the insurance company, and is the same as the one you sign entering the pits or competing at any racetrack insured by the same company.
Oh Yeah ... the ones you sign BEFORE you race JUST entering the track that says that you have inspected the track surface and all other parts of the facilities. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif)
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: WayneM]
#900114
01/10/11 02:32 AM
01/10/11 02:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
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1. You can't race unless you sign it, so it's not a choice 2. Without going into complex language, it doesn't protect them as well as it says. 3. there is no such thing as waiving your right to sue - even if it says so. Yes, contracts say so all the time - and that's why it's there, they hope you believe it. Major prison sentence deals are done every day with the convict waiving his right to appeal as part of the bargain - and they do it anyway (complicated, details on request). A waiver is just another layer of paper your attorney cuts through to sue them - under certain conditions. 4. "Negligence" means different things to different people at different times. Failure to warn you of something you should know anyway (the track is wet) isn't their fault. Forgetting to tell you they parked a Cat D7 in the shut-down area is a tort recovery action regardless of whatever you signed.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: polyspheric]
#900115
01/10/11 04:34 AM
01/10/11 04:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,217 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,217
Park Forest, IL
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A waiver is not really worth the paper it's written on. All it means is that IF something goes wrong you will have to sue to get anything.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: slantzilla]
#900116
01/10/11 07:52 AM
01/10/11 07:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,085 Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,085
Niles , Ohio
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Not racing but Ohio passed a waiver law for hunting.Private landowners that allow someone to hunt their property cant be sued if accidents happen on their land.I guess its worked so far as Ive not heard of any lawsuits.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: polyspheric]
#900117
01/10/11 08:36 AM
01/10/11 08:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 333 So. Jersey
Somerdale Flash
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 333
So. Jersey
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Quote:
1. You can't race unless you sign it, so it's not a choice 2. Without going into complex language, it doesn't protect them as well as it says. 3. there is no such thing as waiving your right to sue - even if it says so. Yes, contracts say so all the time - and that's why it's there, they hope you believe it. Major prison sentence deals are done every day with the convict waiving his right to appeal as part of the bargain - and they do it anyway (complicated, details on request). A waiver is just another layer of paper your attorney cuts through to sue them - under certain conditions. 4. "Negligence" means different things to different people at different times. Failure to warn you of something you should know anyway (the track is wet) isn't their fault. Forgetting to tell you they parked a Cat D7 in the shut-down area is a tort recovery action regardless of whatever you signed.
X2
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: dOc …]
#900119
01/10/11 10:50 PM
01/10/11 10:50 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 103
WalterF
member
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member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 103
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Quote:
Quote:
I am not sure if in a court of law you can sign away "negilence".
SOUNDS LIKE they have a bunch of HACKS running that track ...
That legalese comes directly from the insurance company. Don't be surprised to find it popping up at every track insured by the same company, maybe even your local "hack" track.
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: fishy340]
#900121
01/11/11 12:10 AM
01/11/11 12:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,699 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,699
On the parachute mount
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let me tell you alittle story, i have raced at E town for probably 25 years now. I have had only one inciden there, My 727 exploded on the starting line. It did not come through the floor but it did "punch" my foot off the throttle pretty hard. Needless to say when they towed my car off the starting line, the guy driving the tow truck took me right to the ambulance, He had asked me if i wanted the ambulance to come to me, i told him NO, im fine, To my surprise the guy stopped at the end of the track and MADE ME GET MY FOOT CHECKED...He told me get it looked at..they checked it, told me it was OK , not broken or anything. THen they told me IF there were any problems with it to go to a doctor or hospital. What im getting at here, is the people at E town are very helpful, caring, and they are not HACKS. If anything they are just making you sign what the insurance company dictates plain and simple. E town is a state of the art, NHRA flagship facility...I have been bottom 8's at over 160 there, and the conditions are almost always perfect or close to it. Why dont you state your name so they know who you are.....if you had concerns you should have called the track and told THEM your concerns, not a bunch of strangers on here....\
Tony Russo
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: WalterF]
#900122
01/11/11 02:26 AM
01/11/11 02:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
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Yup - the track management has to do what their liability carrier tells them, or their bond is revoked. What I find dishonest is that the waivers make it appear as though you have no recourse if you sign it - which isn't true. It's like a cop telling you that your accomplice gave you up to make you confess: it only works if you believe the lie. IMHO there is a loose, informal but very real conspiracy among cops, prosecutors, attorneys and courts that citizens should not know anything about the law. A lot of "reality" police behavior on TV (like "Cops") is completely illegal and done constantly. How would I know this? My office before I retired: ![](http://www.victorylibrary.com/graphics/60centre.jpg) Yes, for real: 60 Centre Street, Manhattan
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: polyspheric]
#900123
01/11/11 01:46 PM
01/11/11 01:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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I think this is just a part of an epidemic that us little guys are getting more and more upset about. It seems like the lawyers are writing more and more into disclaimers, waivers and conditions of acceptance that we cannot change, control or alter. See the thread about adpoting pets, any software license, etc. As mentioned here, they CAN be fought in court, but why do we have to sign such obviously false and misleading legal documents anyway? There should be a reasonable measure they must abide by so the average person is not bullyed into signing such things. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif)
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: RodStRace]
#900124
01/11/11 02:39 PM
01/11/11 02:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,123 Seaford Delaware
JSR1485
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,123
Seaford Delaware
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I agree 100% with Tony ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif) I have been racing at Raceway park since 1977 and have been going there longer than that and they are and have always been nothing but "TOP Notch" The Napp Family has always looked out for us racer's and I would bet the that insurance carrier told them this is what you have to do and this has to be signed by the racer's. I also have a story, my son who was 5 @ the time jumped out of a moving golf cart in the pits and landed face first on the asphalt -he was a mess and so was I ! I was driving when he jumped out. I had more EMTs and people helping. They truely took care of him and me.
Switched to the dark side...
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: emarine01]
#900126
01/11/11 07:36 PM
01/11/11 07:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,991 new jersey usa
11secdart
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,991
new jersey usa
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Although I don`t race there every week, I do race there several times a year and raced their Friday Night " Mean Street" series for a couple of years and I agree the place has always been top notch. Years ago I was on my way to ETown when my truck started to miss, so I pulled into the K Mart Plaza on 18 and changed the under the p/u body gas filter and in the process got a nasty burn along with a little gas in it. When I got to the track my wife insisted I go see the track EMTs to have it looked at, they did, they cleaned the burn and properly applied burn cream and a bandage. They didn`t have to, the injury didn`t even happen at the track but they were nice enough to properly treat the injury and I am/was thankful for that.
68 Dart 410 / 904 92 D150 original owner 21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4 23 Audi Q5 16 Honda HRV
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: emarine01]
#900127
01/12/11 12:10 PM
01/12/11 12:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
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Insurance Co,s make huge amounts of profit
Some decades ago, the NJ car insurance companies asked the State legislature for a rate increase. "Here's our numbers, we're not making enough money". "Didn't you forget to include the money you made by investing the payments - a few hundred million?" "That's none of your business".
They didn't get it - that time.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: fishy340]
#900131
01/13/11 08:18 PM
01/13/11 08:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,991 new jersey usa
11secdart
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,991
new jersey usa
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Was that last July on a Sunday? I think thats the day I Won Street Eliminator, I remember a long cleanup and I think it was a Maverick not a Crapi.
68 Dart 410 / 904 92 D150 original owner 21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4 23 Audi Q5 16 Honda HRV
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: emarine01]
#900133
01/13/11 10:41 PM
01/13/11 10:41 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Don't mean to change the subject but,,, Do some of you guys have a no pay clause in your life insurance for auto racing?
I pay $1 a month extra for a rider on mine.
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#900136
01/14/11 10:32 PM
01/14/11 10:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177 ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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these are just standard waiver forms nothin to get excited about you know when you race it on you the reason they do this try to keep the liabilty down somewhat. if wasnt for stupid people sueing over to hot of coffie or hey i was driving down this 2 lane rd and there was another car beside me and he hit me , ooo by the way it was at a racetrack woooo we didnt know that its a risk we all accept when we go, so just sign the d..... thing go racin if not dont race if you keep this up you wont have any track to run at because ins would be to high and they would have to close so come on get over allready ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flame.gif)
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Re: Englishtown's waiver of liability agreement
[Re: emarine01]
#900138
01/15/11 12:30 AM
01/15/11 12:30 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 653 Fort Worth, TX
Dago Red
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 653
Fort Worth, TX
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Quote:
Don't mean to change the subject but,,, Do some of you guys have a no pay clause in your life insurance for auto racing?
This one's a real deal gang. My wife worked in the insurance business and showed me buried way down the bottom are things called "high risk hobbies" that can give the insurance companies an out from having to pay on life insurance policies. Auto racing is one of them.....so is skydiving, bull riding, stunt flying, wreck diving, rodeo clown, bungey jumping et al. There's about forty of them.
Being a dumb redneck isn't on there.....yet. "Hold my beer and watch this.."
If You Can't Be Good, At Least Be Colorful
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