Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
[Re: B1Fish540]
#897195
01/07/11 11:40 PM
01/07/11 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 957 Heart of Ohio
4boxers4
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 957
Heart of Ohio
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I hate to not add quantitative data but I remember the Mopar Nats having a series of match races many years ago with the Thunderbolts, Maxies, 409's and swiss cheese Ponchos. Does anyone remember that? I was excited to see the legendary Fords as I was a Mopar guy with no experience with them. Huge disappointment as were the 409's...seemed they all got spanked but there was this one Poncho that was very impressive! Don't think it was Arnie Beswick but another gent from southern Ohio.
Persistance is omnipotent
Durability Engineer, Chair and Couch division...
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Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
[Re: 4boxers4]
#897196
01/08/11 04:16 AM
01/08/11 04:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,648 USA
max
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,648
USA
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Quote:
but there was this one Poncho that was very impressive! Don't think it was Arnie Beswick but another gent from southern Ohio.
If your talking about the blue 4 speed Pontiac, I believe that was PJ Heck from Gallipolis, Ohio. He has owned that car since it was new and a late family friend of mine used to run his 63 MW Dodge against it all the time back in the 60's and early 70's.
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Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#897197
01/08/11 05:02 AM
01/08/11 05:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Balt. Md
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Just check and see how much faster the Max Wedges were at the 64 Winternats. Heck the Max Wedge was the fastest SS cars there and the Hemi had not even hit the track yet. Butch Leal won the stick class in his Thunderbolt at 12.10 and the auto Max Wedge cars ran like 11.70's and won the auto class of course. I think it was Indy in 64 that the old Ramcharger 63 car ran 11.30's and outran everything there. Closes Thuderbolt was around 11.70 I believe. Ron
Ron, I think your wrong on the Hemi cars at Pomona in 1964, I'm sure they where there, maybe not allowed in SS/AA or SS/A due to not being in production at the beginning of the model year in Sept 1963 They may have been the the first production AFX cars Maybe I'm wrong
I have read that they were not happy with the Hemi at first and decided to get it running better before it made its track apearence. Thats why I have heard it was only Max Wedge cars at the 64 Winter Nats. I believe it talks about it in the new Ramcharger book also that they changed cams in the Hemi to get it running better. They said at first they were no faster then the Max Wedge cars. Ron
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Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
[Re: 383man]
#897198
01/08/11 02:52 PM
01/08/11 02:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,308 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,308
Bend,OR USA
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Ron, what I remember(limited) was the Hemi cars spun the snot out of the tires, worse than the M.W. cars did back then I was 19 then and the information disemination was nowhere like it is today I did attend several(5 or 6) drag races at Fontana drag city that summer, lots of Max wedge Dodges and Plymouths of all three years, even saw the Flying Dutchmen, Brutus and one of Mickey Thompson early funny cars there Hayden Profitt was big on the west coast back then, he had multiple cars, all M.W. Plymouths 4 speeds if I'm remembering correctly Time marches on
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
[Re: max]
#897199
01/08/11 06:05 PM
01/08/11 06:05 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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From everything I've seen on the T-bolts, the mods required to get the big motor in that engine compartment were extensive! 10 lbs. of Sh** in a 5 lbs. bag whereas the maxie had plenty of room even with the huge exhaust manifolds they had! Lots more B-body NSS Maxie repli-cars running around than there are Ford T-bolts. Mainly because of the simplicity and interchangeability of BB's that Mopar designed in. Ford always over-complicated things IMO. Multiple motors with the same displacement (or close) yet nothing interchanges. Yeah, I got off track but I don't care which was faster. Give me a simple, proven combo that's not a complicated nightmare and I'll run that combo all day! ..and win with it!
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Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
#897200
01/08/11 06:29 PM
01/08/11 06:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
From everything I've seen on the T-bolts, the mods required to get the big motor in that engine compartment were extensive!
10 lbs. of Sh** in a 5 lbs. bag whereas the maxie had plenty of room even with the huge exhaust manifolds they had!
Lots more B-body NSS Maxie repli-cars running around than there are Ford T-bolts. Mainly because of the simplicity and interchangeability of BB's that Mopar designed in. Ford always over-complicated things IMO.
Multiple motors with the same displacement (or close) yet nothing interchanges.
Yeah, I got off track but I don't care which was faster.
Give me a simple, proven combo that's not a complicated nightmare and I'll run that combo all day! ..and win with it!
BUT The FORD Y block, FE and Lima Series motors were a slightly confusing mix of part swapping from the factory. They (FORD) often played around with piston deck heights, rod lengths, bore sizes etc. to form it's vast amount of engine sizes. Just the basic 6-8 types of heads were used around the many engine packages. They too, were firm believers in multiple carburetion and mid to upper range power in their performance motors (pre-Cobra Jet motors). Funny thing though, there is quite a bit of interchangeability within their big blocks!! Back to the topic, I STICK with MOPAR engines, I love the power they all produce!!
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#897202
01/08/11 08:07 PM
01/08/11 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Quote:
Ron, what I remember(limited) was the Hemi cars spun the snot out of the tires, worse than the M.W. cars did back then I was 19 then and the information disemination was nowhere like it is today I did attend several(5 or 6) drag races at Fontana drag city that summer, lots of Max wedge Dodges and Plymouths of all three years, even saw the Flying Dutchmen, Brutus and one of Mickey Thompson early funny cars there Hayden Profitt was big on the west coast back then, he had multiple cars, all M.W. Plymouths 4 speeds if I'm remembering correctly Time marches on
That may be very true as it says in the new Ramcharger book that the Max Wedge was aproacing 500 hp and the first Hemi's hit 550 with ease but were no faster on the track. Tire spin makes much sense. Course we dont think about tire spin that much now a days with the tires out now. Ron
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Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
[Re: 383man]
#897205
01/08/11 11:56 PM
01/08/11 11:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
Ron, what I remember(limited) was the Hemi cars spun the snot out of the tires, worse than the M.W. cars did back then I was 19 then and the information disemination was nowhere like it is today I did attend several(5 or 6) drag races at Fontana drag city that summer, lots of Max wedge Dodges and Plymouths of all three years, even saw the Flying Dutchmen, Brutus and one of Mickey Thompson early funny cars there Hayden Profitt was big on the west coast back then, he had multiple cars, all M.W. Plymouths 4 speeds if I'm remembering correctly Time marches on
That may be very true as it says in the new Ramcharger book that the Max Wedge was aproacing 500 hp and the first Hemi's hit 550 with ease but were no faster on the track. Tire spin makes much sense. Course we dont think about tire spin that much now a days with the tires out now. Ron
. The new found power of the HEMI engine overwhelming the tires of yesteryear is a distant memory now that there are STICKIER compound tires nowadays. The 60ft times were slower back then with the HEMI, than the M-W, due to massive torque (at a slightly higher launch rpm). The M-W's had their problems also, but there was more development time on those (M-W) combos and they were pretty much "dialed-in" by the time the HEMI's came to the track!! The HEMI's had the power, but at the time, a BIT too much to put down to the ground. As the tach needle swung to the right, the torque/hp increased in a HEMI.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Ford Thunderbolt vs Max Wedge Stage III
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#897206
02/16/11 03:53 PM
02/16/11 03:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,268 NY
70440+6bbl
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,268
NY
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Quote:
Ron, what I remember(limited) was the Hemi cars spun the snot out of the tires, worse than the M.W. cars did back then I was 19 then and the information disemination was nowhere like it is today I did attend several(5 or 6) drag races at Fontana drag city that summer, lots of Max wedge Dodges and Plymouths of all three years, even saw the Flying Dutchmen, Brutus and one of Mickey Thompson early funny cars there Hayden Profitt was big on the west coast back then, he had multiple cars, all M.W. Plymouths 4 speeds if I'm remembering correctly Time marches on
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