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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#889105
12/27/10 06:47 AM
12/27/10 06:47 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 398
Texas
70Runnerdude
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 398
Texas
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Read the post please a little better before you make your comments. I was talking about a fender tag made by Galen for my Challenger with Him going off of my original build sheet.And I guess this is the reason Barry will not talk to me? Also I mentioned (left it at that) I had given up on being abel to make a tag for my roadrunner as I do not have a build sheet and had forgot that it would need the build date code on the tag. That said I do not see any harm providing me any info as to where my roadrunner was sold or who bought it. Also I have never tried to cheat or pass off a car that it wasnt never and do not pratice in flipping cars anyway! I alos have provided Barry with info on 2 Challengers that are long gone now one of them being a 440 U code car with a special handling tag so no one coould try to fake these cars. I have also given information to Ken Bowser also known as Kiss Alien here on moparts as to a fake rebodied car that I found out about so it would be known to the general mopar comunity ( was a sublime green challnger R/T with a yellow longitudal stripe) and i am sure He passed this info on to Barry. So I really do believe I have been straight up only thing I ever did wrong here I can see is Galen made me a copy of the tag that was missing on my Challenger from my original build sheet that was in the cars back seat and very old and brittle it was not a fake. And now for that I am pretty much banned from ever getting any help from Barry. Quote:
Quote:
Seems I have heard abut Galen offering the service of making replacement fender tags from the build sheets for years. Not sure I see any problem with that.
So what if Galen unknowingly makes a tag from a fake broadcast sheet that gets past his scrutiny (he's human, it could happen), would you be ok with that? What if you bought a car on the pretense that both were original and then found out later that your documents are fake? Would you be ok with that?
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: 70Runnerdude]
#889107
12/27/10 09:55 AM
12/27/10 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
Read the post please a little better before you make your comments.
I was talking about a fender tag made by Galen for my Challenger with Him going off of my original build sheet.And I guess this is the reason Barry will not talk to me?
Also I mentioned (left it at that) I had given up on being abel to make a tag for my roadrunner as I do not have a build sheet and had forgot that it would need the build date code on the tag.
That said I do not see any harm providing me any info as to where my roadrunner was sold or who bought it.
Also I have never tried to cheat or pass off a car that it wasnt never and do not pratice in flipping cars anyway! I alos have provided Barry with info on 2 Challengers that are long gone now one of them being a 440 U code car with a special handling tag so no one coould try to fake these cars. I have also given information to Ken Bowser also known as Kiss Alien here on moparts as to a fake rebodied car that I found out about so it would be known to the general mopar comunity ( was a sublime green challnger R/T with a yellow longitudal stripe) and i am sure He passed this info on to Barry. So I really do believe I have been straight up only thing I ever did wrong here I can see is Galen made me a copy of the tag that was missing on my Challenger from my original build sheet that was in the cars back seat and very old and brittle it was not a fake. And now for that I am pretty much banned from ever getting any help from Barry.
Quote:
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Quote:
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Seems I have heard abut Galen offering the service of making replacement fender tags from the build sheets for years. Not sure I see any problem with that.
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So what if Galen unknowingly makes a tag from a fake broadcast sheet that gets past his scrutiny (he's human, it could happen), would you be ok with that? What if you bought a car on the pretense that both were original and then found out later that your documents are fake? Would you be ok with that?
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I was not addressing or quoting you in my above quoted post, looks like you need to take some of your own advice.
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: RodStRace]
#889109
12/27/10 12:23 PM
12/27/10 12:23 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,196
imperial mo.
stickman
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,196
imperial mo.
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Forgive me if I`am wrong. Do you guys disagree with having a tag made off of your build sheet? What is the concern were? 
YOU CAN`T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS IF YOU NEVER LEAVE THE PORCH.
EB5 70 U Code RT/SE Shaker Challenger
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: stickman]
#889110
12/27/10 12:41 PM
12/27/10 12:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
superbyrd
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
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why would you want a fender tag made anyway???
like stated earlier,if you bought a car and the fender tag was missing,that was your choice. live with it. who cares if it's there or not? all the tag is going to show is what options and equipment the car had on it originally,according to your broadcast shett. if it's your car,who cares. enjoy it for what the car is,how it is. if you are that concerned with someone seeing your fendertag,so you can proclaim to the world that "this is how this car came from the factory"
then you are doing it only for the intent to re sell or make someone think your car is worth more than it is with the intent of selling. period. call it you want,but,i see no other reason.period. and don't say,i just want the duplicate tag on my car because i just want it there,or,it will make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside,or blah,blah,blah. really,you don't have to lie to have friends.
you are probably the same kind of person,who would take the VIN tag,fender tag,title,and saw out the body numbers from a rusty car,put them all on another car,and claim it is still the original car,etc,etc, and claim it's "ok",its just "re-bodying".lol
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: stickman]
#889111
12/27/10 01:13 PM
12/27/10 01:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,548
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
The member whose name is actually Art
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The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,548
Albany, NY
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Quote:
Forgive me if I`am wrong. Do you guys disagree with having a tag made off of your build sheet?
What is the concern were?
A b.sheet can be duplicated too. It introduces the potential for fakery. In the atmosphere of a high-value Mopar purchase, I can understand that holding a strict line on "duplicate" fendertags is important so it doesn't add the potential for a fake car to be in circulation.
EXAMPLE: You members here saved my brother from buying a $54,000 Charger R/T because photos of the fendertag proved it to be a fake.  The reason my bro was interested was for the rare color combo and options. The seller said he used to have the brcastsheet, but misplaced it somewhere and Darn, wouldn't ya know he just couldn't find it right now? Surprise, surprise. 
I can sympathize with a totally legit owner who loves their Mopar wanting to have a duplicate fendertag for it. Perhaps Galen sets a threshold for documentation from which he's willing to repop a fendertag. Even then I'm thinking there are ways to prove it isn't the original. Maybe Galen builds into his duplictes a little flaw for detection purposes?
We may not be able to have it both ways: Accepting documentation on 'low-dollar' Mopar to please a loving owner vs not accepting the same documentation on a hi-dollar Mopar because the potential for someone wanting to make money on a fake.
I mean no offense here, so someone please school me on this:
.. If the OP is asking for Barry to fabricate a fendertag, that implies that Barry is very skilled at doing it ...no? This means he has done it before.
If so, under what circumstances did Barry make those f.tags?  Either way, it appears those circumstances have changed.
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: superbyrd]
#889112
12/27/10 01:20 PM
12/27/10 01:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 253
Orange County, CA
Mike H
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 253
Orange County, CA
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I think it depends on your intent. What if your original tag is badly rusted but legible? I see no problem getting a copy of that tag made and putting it on your resto.
And part of it is terminology. Why is it every other piece on the car could be fake (excuse me, I mean reproduction) like fenders, hood, emblems, etc., but a repro tag is not a repro, but fake? When you sell your car, do you tell the buyer this and that are not original parts but fake ones?
Again, intent. I would have no problem with someone wanting to create a tag to "complete" his car. I would have a problem with anyone trying to pass off that car or anything else, be it a gem or a painting or a Rolex, as something it is not. The more rare the item, the more people open themselves up to getting ripped off.
If you are willing to pay $100k for an original 6-pack RR (or a gem, painting, etc.)you had better be an expert in that particular field and well-trained in ascertaining whether or not that particular item is an original. Or employ someone who can. If you just take some Joe's word (dude, this is a real Rolex! Seriously!), you deserved to get ripped off.
Documention on these cars was never meant to be as hard to counterfeit as a $100 bill. Maybe instead of wondering if a tag is original, you should just, like a retailer checking your $100 bill, assume all tags are fake and pay that price for the car.
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#889116
12/27/10 02:13 PM
12/27/10 02:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,926
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,926
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
If you were to do a 100 pt restoration on this car would you want this tag to be present or a "DUPLICATION" of same? 
Fake tag!!!  Just kidding
You make a very good point
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: QuickBpBp]
#889117
12/27/10 02:15 PM
12/27/10 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,343
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,343
Crook County, ILL
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Don't get me wrong, I think having a tag made up that shows a car having different options than it was originally built with should be a crime, but I think people get carried away with the tag issue sometimes.
I find it very conspicuous when I see a restored car with no tag, it sticks out like a sore thumb. To me, it is like seeing a car with no grille or similar. Also, when I see a restored car with its original tag that has been blasted and repainted after obviously being in bad shape, it also looks pretty conspicuous. You wouldn't replate a rusty dented bumper and then install the dented pitted but shiny piece on your restoration? But I do get the feeling that some here would have someone thrown in jail for life if they put their rusty tag in a safe with the car's title and other paperwork, and have a repro made to install on their restored car.
I have heard these stories of tags getting stolen off cars when they are displayed at shows. Does this really happen or is it sort of a urban legend type thing? With the crowds at car shows I attend, I have a hard time thinking that someone would walk up and start unscrewing a tag thinking no one would notice and intervene?
But if it does happen, I have two cars that have original tags on them, I question if I should have repro tags made and lock the originals up? Or would that make me a criminal in some people's eyes?
This issue always turns into arguments as everyone has a strong opinion it seems, but I really think there are a lot more legitimate reasons to have a repro tag made than bad intent reasons.
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#889120
12/27/10 02:24 PM
12/27/10 02:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
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Quote:
.. If the OP is asking for Barry to fabricate a fendertag, that implies that Barry is very skilled at doing it ...no? This means he has done it before.
If so, under what circumstances did Barry make those f.tags? Either way, it appears those circumstances have changed.
Knowing how to do something and doing it are two different things. There are lots of people that COULD help make fake tags. It doesn't mean they have or would.
Your post implies he has helped make fake tags in the past. Do you have any evidence to support that assertion or are you just casting aspersions on the man's character?
Seeking:
1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs.
Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: Mike H]
#889123
12/27/10 02:33 PM
12/27/10 02:33 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Why is it every other piece on the car could be fake (excuse me, I mean reproduction) like fenders, hood, emblems, etc., but a repro tag is not a repro, but fake? When you sell your car, do you tell the buyer this and that are not original parts but fake ones?
The car collection hobby has been around a long time (AACA was founded in 1935). For most of that time, the rare and higher value collectibles couldn't readily be cloned (think Deusenberg or V-16 Cadillac), and no one cared if you restored a Model A by piecing together half a dozen different cars.
All that changed when relatively ordinary production cars became highly valuable based on a few bolt-on factory options (i.e., muscle cars). Because all the basic mechanical and structural components of the collectible versions of these regular production cars are readily available elsewhere, and the small pieces can be readily re-produced, it is quite easy to produce a mechanical and visual clone of a high-dollar collectible. Since the mechanical and cosmetic ingredients which define muscle cars aren't sufficiently unique, the value of a high-dollar muscle car ultimately depends not on the mechanical or cosmetic parts that made them desirable in the first place, but on the only things that give them a supposedly "unique" identity (and high value) - a few stamped numbers and some paper.
Now, you can get your panties in a wad about how easy it is to fake documentation (like most on this muscle-car board do), or maybe you can think it's kinda dumb to have such a value system in the first place.
Your choice.
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