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318 to 273 Problems #886643
12/23/10 06:19 PM
12/23/10 06:19 PM
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bobs69 Offline OP
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What problems will i run into changing from a 318 to a 273 in my 66 pickup? Thanks

6374030-pickup007.JPG (28 downloads)
Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: bobs69] #886644
12/23/10 06:24 PM
12/23/10 06:24 PM
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okie Offline
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I wouldn't think there would be any problems, everything should hook up OK.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: bobs69] #886645
12/23/10 06:39 PM
12/23/10 06:39 PM
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Candler,NC / Myrtle Beach, SC
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JDMopar Offline
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Only thing I can think of would be water pump inlet, and pulley alignment. Use the timing cover,pullies and water pump from the 318 and that should eliminate that problem. If you swap timing covers,put a new timing set on the 273 while it's off.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: JDMopar] #886646
12/23/10 07:00 PM
12/23/10 07:00 PM
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Quote:

Only thing I can think of would be water pump inlet, and pulley alignment. Use the timing cover,pullies and water pump from the 318 and that should eliminate that problem. If you swap timing covers,put a new timing set on the 273 while it's off.




69 and prior should have the same parts on a 273 and a 318.

IIRC it was 1970 when the changed the water pump outlet to the passenger side.


Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: bobs69] #886647
12/24/10 10:56 AM
12/24/10 10:56 AM
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up yours
Supercuda Offline
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less hp and torque


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: bobs69] #886648
12/24/10 11:24 AM
12/24/10 11:24 AM
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540challenger Offline
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Quote:

What problems will i run into changing from a 318 to a 273 in my 66 pickup? Thanks




The only major problem that needs to be address before you do the swap is the transmission on autos. Early 273, 67 and back have a smaller recess where the nose of the torque convertor goes inot the crank. double check before you install.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: 540challenger] #886649
12/24/10 12:11 PM
12/24/10 12:11 PM
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Candler,NC / Myrtle Beach, SC
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JDMopar Offline
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Good catch! I forgot about that one.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: JDMopar] #886650
12/24/10 01:13 PM
12/24/10 01:13 PM
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540challenger Offline
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Quote:

Good catch! I forgot about that one.


Yes that one can cost alot of If you miss it

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: 540challenger] #886651
12/24/10 01:27 PM
12/24/10 01:27 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Why are you going to a smaller engine? You won't be getting any better milage and your hauling and towing ability will go way down.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: stumpy] #886652
12/24/10 02:33 PM
12/24/10 02:33 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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Mabey he has a bad 318 in his truck and happens to have a good 273 sitting around. Mabey he just wants better MPG and don't mind the performance hit, it could be lots of reasons.

He will get better miledge and it will take longer to get an equal sized load going. My 239 in my dakota gets way better miledge than my 318 dakota even towing a 67 cuda on a flat bed but it was working a lot harder going up mountain passes. As a matter of fact the little motor truck only got one MPG less loaded than the V8 did un loaded.

As for the converter you can get one made with the small hub and regular 904 guts. You could also swap cranks.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: HotRodDave] #886653
12/24/10 02:57 PM
12/24/10 02:57 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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the 273 will have to work harder and therfore get worse milage in that truck. You can't compare the newer motors with the oldies.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: stumpy] #886654
12/24/10 03:15 PM
12/24/10 03:15 PM
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It will get better MPG, been there done that.

It does not work harder, the same amount of work or less (if you accelerate slower)actually gets done. Also it has less pumping loss and less friction loss. At the same power output say about 75HP (about what his truck would require to hit 70mph and maintain it) the 273 will have lower intake vaccume that fights the pistons going down added to the friction reduction it WILL get better MPG as long as the tunes are right for both motors. If bigger is better than he should be able to build a 605 hemi and get 50 mpg because it does not have to work as hard


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: okie] #886655
12/24/10 03:16 PM
12/24/10 03:16 PM
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Today? Who Knows?
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Isn't a 66 318 still a Poly??

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #886656
12/24/10 03:28 PM
12/24/10 03:28 PM
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bobs69 Offline OP
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This truck was a slant 6 when i got it. I put a 318 out of a van and now it is tired and needs rebuilt. The 273 comes complete with a transmission and will do until i get the 318 redone. I only drive the truck on weekends fuel milage is not an issue.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: stumpy] #886657
12/24/10 06:39 PM
12/24/10 06:39 PM
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Glendale, AZ
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Quote:

the 273 will have to work harder and therfore get worse milage in that truck.




So if I were to apply your thought process to this conversation by using a different comparison, youre saying for example a 360 will get better milage than an equally built 273 in the same vehicle...simply because the 360 doesnt have to "work as hard"? I dont think so. What about a 408??? Bigger cubes doesnt mean better MPG. Ya still gotta feed the bigger motor. If that was the case, slant 6s and small LAs wouldnt exist. Everything would have a big block.


1969 Nova
454/M21/3.31
Mild mid-11 second weekend cruiser

1994 F150 XLT Super Cab 2WD
5.0/4R70W/3.55
(Daily driver)
Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: 69L78Nova] #886658
12/24/10 06:42 PM
12/24/10 06:42 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Come on and get real instead of going off on a wild trip. The stock 273 will not move that truck as well as the the stock 318 running the same carb etc and will get worse milage. I have owned A bodies with 273 and the same car with a 318 and the 318 got noticably better milage. Hotroddave the problem with your statement is that the 273 has less hp stock then the stock 318 which makes your scenerio moot. Plus the vacuum thing was discussed before and wasn't proved to be correct then.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: stumpy] #886659
12/24/10 08:28 PM
12/24/10 08:28 PM
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HotRodDave Offline
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Obviously you never tried the experiment I sugested before, the vaccume thing is a proven fact. Low vaccume is part of why a diesel gets so much better MPG and why an atkins cycle engine gets good MPG. Now... Go get in your car go to the top of a really big hill, close the throttle shut the engine off and coast, this is simulateing high vaccume low compression, then hit the gas and you can feel the vehicle coast much easier now even though compression is much higher but vaccume is now gone, this will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that vaccume robs more power than high compression. It is true that you want to build your engine to produce high vaccume but that is only because it means your engine is produceing the most HP from a given amount of fuel, what you need to do is to maximize it is gear it really high so it actually runs at a lower vaccume, any HP you produce above what is needed to maintain your speed is wasteing fuel.

Also WOT HP has nothing to do with MPG at a cruise or even mild acceleration, it only takes a certain amount of HP to keep a vehicle going at a certain speed no matter how big the engine is, in his case it probably takes around 75 HP or less around 70 mph and the 273 is more than capable of that and at less than WOT also. Anything more is WASTED FUEL.

My 66 cuda with a 273 got much better MPG than my 68 318 cuda in stock form both motors were completly stock and had 2.76 rear gears. No the 273 was not fast but MPG was un-questionably better till I built the super duper MPG 318 and I am 100% convinced that a 273 built the same way would have got even better MPG.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: HotRodDave] #886660
12/24/10 08:36 PM
12/24/10 08:36 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
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We went through this before and I still think you are wrong because we don't drive at 70 with the engine shut off or the carb closed. I won't ever agree with you and vice versa so there is no use in continuing this discussion again.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: stumpy] #886661
12/24/10 08:58 PM
12/24/10 08:58 PM
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so..you both agree that you both disagree.. correct?


Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: scratchnfotraction] #886662
12/24/10 09:14 PM
12/24/10 09:14 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Yes.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: stumpy] #886663
12/25/10 01:02 AM
12/25/10 01:02 AM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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I agree that he is wrong, I even came up with a very scientific test to prove it, he has not tried it nor has he come up with any evidence or test to prove his "theory" or disprove the facts. The fact is if you hook a vaccume gauge to your engine it will still have very high vaccume at 70mph cruise speeds because the typical automotive engine is way more power than is needed for that operation.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: HotRodDave] #886664
12/25/10 01:11 AM
12/25/10 01:11 AM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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I proved it last time you spouted this stuff and I won't do it again. I don't see the necessity considering you won't listen to anybody but yourself. I'm done beating your dead horse. Merry Christmas.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: stumpy] #886665
12/25/10 05:33 AM
12/25/10 05:33 AM
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Sarcoxie, MO, USA
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MoPar Jamie Offline
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Mom's '93 Dakota got the same or worse mileage than my old ;95 318 truck. My truck would run circles around it, they were basically the same truck, extended cab 2wd autos. Her truck has manual windows and locks however.

I'll take the 318 over the V6 any day.


- MoPar Jamie

1972 Fury III 4dr
1986 D-150 LWB Royal SE
Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: HotRodDave] #886666
12/25/10 09:31 AM
12/25/10 09:31 AM
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Florida
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so stumpy agrees that yall disagree

but you still feel you do not agree that you disagree

I remember a poster of Archie Bunker,it read

"in his own mind,he knows he is right"

sounds like you are the same way

at least stumpy went half way to agree to disagree,so you most likly will not agree with anyone unless the say you are correct and agree with you

I think to agree that you disagree would be the end of it

hard to be humble when you know your right in your own mind and wont agree to disagree and move on sometimes I guess


Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 12/25/10 09:33 AM.
Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: scratchnfotraction] #886667
12/25/10 09:39 AM
12/25/10 09:39 AM
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Florida
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sorry Bob,hope the swap goes well for you and gets the truck running and back on the road

no matter how many MPGs or power it has

a running truck uses more gas than a non running truck for sure

unless some one disagrees with me on that

merry Christmas


Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: scratchnfotraction] #886668
12/25/10 10:40 AM
12/25/10 10:40 AM
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chicagoland,usa
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A rum, bum bum, bum.

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: scratchnfotraction] #886669
12/25/10 10:40 AM
12/25/10 10:40 AM
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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Owned a 67' Cuda with the 273 Commando Engine and
4-speed. Great car!! Down on power compared to a 68' with a 340, BUT I knocked down over 21-22mpg on the road. Always kept the motor in a good state of tune. Now compared to my ex-car 79' Chrysler Lebaron Coupe with the "Lean Burn" 318 and 3speed auto w/lockup converter, mileage was different. Besides the 318 being smog-laden, it too was down on power. it had VERY good road manners but I couldn't seem to get out of the high
teens' in on road mileage. I took the black box
out (lean burn module troublesome) and put the hi-po ignition on it. Pickup speed was improved a lot but mileage was pretty much the same. If I drove a 50-55 with the cruise on for LONGER trips (level roadways out west), I'd notice almost NO difference from my 'Cuda. The 'Cuda ran at 60-65 on the road. Had NO problems with it as long as it was tuned (Had a mechanical cam in it) and the AFB performed flawlessly!!




"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: HotRodDave] #886670
12/25/10 11:44 AM
12/25/10 11:44 AM
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Quote:

Mabey he has a bad 318 in his truck and happens to have a good 273 sitting around. Mabey he just wants better MPG and don't mind the performance hit, it could be lots of reasons.

He will get better miledge and it will take longer to get an equal sized load going. My 239 in my dakota gets way better miledge than my 318 dakota even towing a 67 cuda on a flat bed but it was working a lot harder going up mountain passes. As a matter of fact the little motor truck only got one MPG less loaded than the V8 did un loaded.

As for the converter you can get one made with the small hub and regular 904 guts. You could also swap cranks.




I guess the argument goes back to the AGE OLD comparision of balance between HORSEPOWER vs. TORQUE. Throw into the mix: BSFC, Vehicle weight,
gearing, tire/front end science, C of G, and so on
and so forth, and you have ENDLESS possibilities on the mileage/power factor. YOU BOTH are RIGHT in your RESPECTIVE ways, since there are no CONCRETE standards to base the "theories" on. Everything Detroit builds is based on a COMPRIMISE, and IF you guys still are at odds, settle this at the TRACK. AT least there you can have a laugh or two, as well as BRAGGING RIGHTS!!
A MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!! And God Bless us, every one!!



Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 12/25/10 11:48 AM.

"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #886671
12/25/10 01:30 PM
12/25/10 01:30 PM
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540challenger Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Mabey he has a bad 318 in his truck and happens to have a good 273 sitting around. Mabey he just wants better MPG and don't mind the performance hit, it could be lots of reasons.

He will get better miledge and it will take longer to get an equal sized load going. My 239 in my dakota gets way better miledge than my 318 dakota even towing a 67 cuda on a flat bed but it was working a lot harder going up mountain passes. As a matter of fact the little motor truck only got one MPG less loaded than the V8 did un loaded.

As for the converter you can get one made with the small hub and regular 904 guts. You could also swap cranks.




I guess the argument goes back to the AGE OLD comparision of balance between HORSEPOWER vs. TORQUE. Throw into the mix: BSFC, Vehicle weight,
gearing, tire/front end science, C of G, and so on
and so forth, and you have ENDLESS possibilities on the mileage/power factor. YOU BOTH are RIGHT in your RESPECTIVE ways, since there are no CONCRETE standards to base the "theories" on. Everything Detroit builds is based on a COMPRIMISE, and IF you guys still are at odds, settle this at the TRACK. AT least there you can have a laugh or two, as well as BRAGGING RIGHTS!!
A MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!! And God Bless us, every one!!







Unless it is a 318 magnum the 273 "if it is the 4bbl version should be very clost to the horse/torque power of 318 heck even the 2bbl version would be close enough to the 72 and after 318 you won't see and big difference just drive and enjoy. The guy before me put a 273 4bbl in my challenger and it drove fine and plenty of power to move on a side note it was no 1/4 street fighter but niether is a 318

Re: 318 to 273 Problems [Re: 540challenger] #886672
12/25/10 05:34 PM
12/25/10 05:34 PM
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Posts: 2,275
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Mabey he has a bad 318 in his truck and happens to have a good 273 sitting around. Mabey he just wants better MPG and don't mind the performance hit, it could be lots of reasons.

He will get better miledge and it will take longer to get an equal sized load going. My 239 in my dakota gets way better miledge than my 318 dakota even towing a 67 cuda on a flat bed but it was working a lot harder going up mountain passes. As a matter of fact the little motor truck only got one MPG less loaded than the V8 did un loaded.

As for the converter you can get one made with the small hub and regular 904 guts. You could also swap cranks.




I guess the argument goes back to the AGE OLD comparision of balance between HORSEPOWER vs. TORQUE. Throw into the mix: BSFC, Vehicle weight,
gearing, tire/front end science, C of G, and so on
and so forth, and you have ENDLESS possibilities on the mileage/power factor. YOU BOTH are RIGHT in your RESPECTIVE ways, since there are no CONCRETE standards to base the "theories" on. Everything Detroit builds is based on a COMPRIMISE, and IF you guys still are at odds, settle this at the TRACK. AT least there you can have a laugh or two, as well as BRAGGING RIGHTS!!
A MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!! And God Bless us, every one!!







Unless it is a 318 magnum the 273 "if it is the 4bbl version should be very clost to the horse/torque power of 318 heck even the 2bbl version would be close enough to the 72 and after 318 you won't see and big difference just drive and enjoy. The guy before me put a 273 4bbl in my challenger and it drove fine and plenty of power to move on a side note it was no 1/4 street fighter but niether is a 318




, but why put the smaller motor in a HEAVY chassis car for the 1/4 mi jaunts anyway!!
It makes better sense to run the LIGHTEST chassis
as per rules in class or bracket racing. Anything goes for street usage, if it moves it, it's good.
Heck they HAD slant sixes in trucks for years and really no one has complained. If they did, a larger motor swapped in cured the problem. The 318 is nothing to sneeze at for racing, it just lacks in the breathing dept. on the top end scale!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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