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Re: Extreme altitude [Re: Chassisman] #870303
12/04/10 02:29 AM
12/04/10 02:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
polyspheric Offline
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polyspheric  Offline
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New York
You're looking at the problem backward.
Water is easier to boil at high altitude, but all your heat is escaping as water vapor.
Put on lid on it.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Extreme altitude [Re: polyspheric] #870304
12/04/10 02:37 AM
12/04/10 02:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,644
North Carolina
sasquatch Offline OP
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sasquatch  Offline OP
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North Carolina
Actually I should not have used the word boil. With the 9.5 converter the car's water temp is 220 and climbing whereas with the wuss 12inch it runs 185.

You guys did give a thought though. Would it not make sense that he would need a higher pressure radiator cap at that altitude? I realize the water actually boils at a lower temp but the production of steam bubbles cannot be a good thing.
Thoughts...
Todd

Re: Extreme altitude [Re: sasquatch] #870305
12/04/10 03:59 AM
12/04/10 03:59 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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451Mopar  Offline
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Aurora, Colorado
Quote:

Does anyone here have real world knowledge of tuning engines at 11,000 to 12,000 feet? I have a customer in South Africa that seems to be having some trouble with a 572 hemi. Most of the advise that works here does not seem to be working there.
Todd




No tuning knowledge at 11,000+ ft altitude, but even at the 6,000 ft altitude here in Denver, one issue is low port velocity when running really large port heads. cams with earlier intake closing points help build cylinder pressure and reduce reversion back into the intake, so its usually better to run a smaller cam or at least advance it several degrees. The other is vapor lock. Fuel injection would be a good idea. Pump gas wants to turn to vapor pretty easy at high altitude. keeping it at high pressure, and using a return line to keep the fuel cool works good.
I use return lines on all my cars.
On a few carbs I had to enlarge the idle restrictions in the metering block. The low air pressure at high altitude was making the idle/transition circuit too lean.

Re: Extreme altitude [Re: DragDart360] #870306
12/04/10 04:02 AM
12/04/10 04:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,355
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Posts: 43,355
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

Quote:

Some high altitude world war two planes ran the bottle.




Can you provide an example?


The Germans used NOS on the Messershmidt ME109 and possibly other WW2 fighters to get high enough to go after our bombers at the beginning of the war. I read this in a book about WW2 According to that book the motors had to be changed out and overhauled after each mission, the jets and rocket planes ended up being the answer(a fine example of to little to late, thank God) to our high altitude B17 G models with superchargers and coumpound turbocharger on them


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Extreme altitude [Re: sasquatch] #870307
12/04/10 04:03 AM
12/04/10 04:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
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Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Quote:

Actually I should not have used the word boil. With the 9.5 converter the car's water temp is 220 and climbing whereas with the wuss 12inch it runs 185.

You guys did give a thought though. Would it not make sense that he would need a higher pressure radiator cap at that altitude? I realize the water actually boils at a lower temp but the production of steam bubbles cannot be a good thing.
Thoughts...
Todd




From rereading/interpreting your posts , your basicaly having a boiling problem of the cooling system. Not a Boiling problem of the tranny fluid.

Its the Trannys two different verts stall differences that are effecting and contributing to this extra heat to the rad.

With the extra altitude, 12000 ft. yes you will want a Higher PSI rad cap to counter the effects of the lower pressure atmospheric conditions, at the higher elavation. mike

Last edited by Sport440; 12/04/10 04:06 AM.
Re: Extreme altitude [Re: DragDart360] #870308
12/04/10 04:04 AM
12/04/10 04:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,379
MD
Kevins493 Offline
top fuel
Kevins493  Offline
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Posts: 2,379
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Quote:

Quote:

Some high altitude world war two planes ran the bottle.




Can you provide an example?



Can't provide an example of that but i do know that they may have tried tipping the can.. there was a report from the army/airforce that said something to the effect of "while the power output is quite substantial, catastrophic engine failure is a common and predictable result of its use" (referring to nitromethane)..

Re: Extreme altitude *DELETED* [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #870309
12/04/10 04:39 AM
12/04/10 04:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Post deleted by Sport440

Re: Extreme altitude [Re: Sport440] #870310
12/04/10 10:31 AM
12/04/10 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Cudajon Offline
pro stock
Cudajon  Offline
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Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
There were a lot of liquid cooled engines used during WWII. They used glycol for the cooling and flew at altitudes of over 30000 ft. Somone mentioned FI, for that altitude that would be his best bet. Anybody driving through Monarch Pass in colorado (11312 ft with a carburated car and then a FI car knows this.

Re: Extreme altitude [Re: Cab_Burge] #870311
12/04/10 11:00 AM
12/04/10 11:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Jensen Beach, Florida
pressureangle Offline
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Jensen Beach, Florida
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Some high altitude world war two planes ran the bottle.




Can you provide an example?


The Germans used NOS on the Messershmidt ME109 and possibly other WW2 fighters to get high enough to go after our bombers at the beginning of the war. I read this in a book about WW2 According to that book the motors had to be changed out and overhauled after each mission, the jets and rocket planes ended up being the answer(a fine example of to little to late, thank God) to our high altitude B17 G models with superchargers and coumpound turbocharger on them




I thought it fairly well known both by WWII buffs and NOS buffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_1


Why do I torture myself so?
Re: Extreme altitude [Re: DragDart360] #870312
12/04/10 01:23 PM
12/04/10 01:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
6
602heavy Offline
pro stock
602heavy  Offline
pro stock
6

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
Quote:

Quote:

Some high altitude world war two planes ran the bottle.




Can you provide an example?




Well , i'm not really into world war two planes so don't know anyting about them , what i do know is nitrous oxide was first used in german fighter planes , some british planes also used nitrous oxide , don't think you guys (US) caught the bug ............one aircraft that used it was the TA-152 , i think the system used was a 'GM-1' , the pilots could fly @ a higher altitude when 'on the bottle' , was also used for increased acceleration.

The pilots better hope they had a good 'tuner' back then , having Squeeze around in those days would of put those pilots mind @ rest.

only messin around Squeeze , could'nt help myself.

Re: Extreme altitude [Re: 602heavy] #870313
12/04/10 01:28 PM
12/04/10 01:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
6
602heavy Offline
pro stock
602heavy  Offline
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Posts: 1,200
UK
Sorry Cab , i did'nt read you're post before i poted above.

Re: Extreme altitude [Re: sasquatch] #870314
12/04/10 02:38 PM
12/04/10 02:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
I'm thinking that with the LACK of torque and the
converter was set up with X clearance that it has
a real high slippage rate causing the temps... have
him see the rpm and check the slippage

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