Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
#869638
12/02/10 03:06 PM
12/02/10 03:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707 California
BigDaddy440
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707
California
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I’d like to discuss media blasting types and the pros and cons of each when used to blast a car body: (exterior, interior, and under)
Media types I’m considering for my car which is on a rotisserie.
Soda Blast
Plastic Bead Blast
Glass Bead Blast
Ultra Fine Steel Blast
Other
The basic argument for using a softer media I assume will be it doesn’t remove any actual metal and is easier to clean up. Also the residue that soda leaves behind can be seen as both positive and negative.
The basic argument for using a more abrasive media I assume will be that it removes paint more easily, saving time. It also blasts away rust, where softer media types may not. More abrasive media types also remove metal but in doing so, etch the metal surfaces allowing primers / sealers to “grab”.
Have an opinion about media blasting? Let’s here it!
Thanks!
1969 A12 Roadrunner 1970 Plymouth Cuda 1968 Dodge Dart
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: BigDaddy440]
#869639
12/02/10 04:08 PM
12/02/10 04:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550 Sacramento CA
Morty426
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
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I had my current project media striped, but I'm not sure if that's what I'm going to do on the next car. Here's a list of some of the concerns: Media blasting may remove the galvenized layer from the sheet metal. It's not very thick on old cars and this is a major rust preventative. You'll never get it out of the car. I had my car on a rotisourrie and spun it around 20 times, tapped on it - still media comes out. Plastic media can get stuck in tight areas. Warpage - if they guy doing stays in one spot too long you can warp the panel. Hoods and the roof are two key areas.
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: BigDaddy440]
#869640
12/02/10 04:17 PM
12/02/10 04:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060 Western New York
sixpackbee
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060
Western New York
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I never blast a body, hood or deck lid. You'll never get it all out. Strip by hand or dip in my shop.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: sixpackbee]
#869641
12/02/10 04:38 PM
12/02/10 04:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,992 midwest
68427vette
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,992
midwest
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i blast alot of cars for the local shops here,, i do not blast the hoods, roofs, and some doors,(most of teh time they chemically strip, or DA those parts, then i "dust" them, so heat is not generated), It all has to deal with whose running the equipment, and time era of the project, 1930 vrs 1960's, they metal is heavier!! here is my M20 wwii armored car: i have more cars on rotessiories if you want me to list. Most come over with 1/4's, floors, trunks cut out of them. mostly 55-57 stuff.. black beauty is alot heavier, and will eat and heat up metal, with some sands, silica is in the sand, and you MUST use a mask, it will destroy your lungs, and you'll be on O2 for life, Also you must DA, the parts, cars after the sand blasting, to remove all sand embedded in the metal parts, its a long process, but i've done a alot of cars that turned in to 100K cars, YEs it a pain to clean, and clean out, and clean some more. Chemical stripping, is great, but some say the acid, never leaves some of the joints, and you will/may have paint peel.. ive done both. i stumbled into this side business, because i have 50 WWII trucks to restore, and it was cheaper to BUY the equipment, then pay some one to blast all my stuff!! I'm even on my purchase in one year. a good epoxy primer, dp40, will take care of the "Media blasting may remove the galvenized layer from the sheet metal" this will be a long thread................
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: 68427vette]
#869642
12/02/10 05:04 PM
12/02/10 05:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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I blast alot also. Looking at your picture, you need to move your compressor much farther away from the work area. Love your pot, got to revalve my big one like that. my Please make your picture smaller so we don't have to scroll back and forth to read this thread, thank you. I also bought the equipment a long time ago. I used to blast for my old employer is where I got my experience. I have only used silca sand, coal slage and urea type plastic. They each have there place. I don't understand the comments about not being able to get the sand out, that has not been my experience when I use my big compressor to blow it out. I have done countless trucks and cars now including my own. I also blast LP tanks here at work which is a no brainer operation, can't warp tanks. There are different grades of media and it takes practice and expermentation to use what's best for the work in front of you. My compressor, with 14" Mopar rally rims!! Someday I will get around to installing center caps and trim rings! I have been on jobs years ago where they brought media(silica sand) in by the dump truck load. I buy it 30 bags at a time on a skid.
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: 68427vette]
#869643
12/02/10 05:07 PM
12/02/10 05:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Black beauty is one of many trade names for coal slage. There are at least 5 grades. Not all "black beauty" is heavy, 30/60 for example is quite fine. I have never blasted without a blast hood, crazy not to use one. I also bought a fresh air full face mask that I use sometimes under my hood. I can blast the whole car with the right media. The bottem and inside with coal slage, the outside with plastic media.
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: North East]
#869645
12/02/10 06:24 PM
12/02/10 06:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,318 Southern Maryland
klunick
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master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,318
Southern Maryland
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Tried it and got tired real fast. I ended up taking my car down to NC and having it blasted using glass bead. It turned out well and ran about $1100 if I remember correctly. As others have stated, the media gets everywhere. Start out by taking the car completely apart down to a shell. We had to cut my rockers off anyway and they were packed full of media. Take Challenger1's advice as he has done this many times and knows what he is talking about. Next time I will either take my car to him or back to NC but I will not attempt to do a complete shell. I have a huge compressor, but that garage gets hot, the blasting suit sticks to you, I was constantly having to replace face shields due to the abrasive blowing back, and the media gets everywhere. Not worth the effort as far as I am concerned.
67 Barracuda FB
69 Superbee
"Southern Maryland: If you want a good looking woman, you had better bring her with you"
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: BigDaddy440]
#869646
12/02/10 07:26 PM
12/02/10 07:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 298 Shelton, Ct.
572_HEMI_Cuda
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 298
Shelton, Ct.
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We use plastic, steel grit, aluminum oxide, glass bead and a mix of plastic and aluminum oxide. Plastic removes paint quickly and at a very low pressure. We just did 69 Rolls Royce and it had an aluminum hood, trunk and doors, also with a really rusty roof and so-so fenders. The aluminum panels we stripped one layer of paint at a time at 28 psi, very low pressure. After, we did the remaining steel with a mix of plastic and aluminum oxide to remove the rust. Car was straight and no warping. Hoods, fenders and doors can be done. We do not use sand. Find someone who can do the correct job and that you are comfortable with. Plenty of good dry strippers around.
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: chrisf]
#869648
12/03/10 01:00 AM
12/03/10 01:00 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707 California
BigDaddy440
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707
California
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My car has very little rust, and no undercoating, so I don't think I NEED a super abrasive media, but I certainly don't want to have problems with my paint job from left over Soda residual that I didn't wash off well enough.
How does glass bead compare to plastic bead? There's a shop in town that uses glass bead on cars, and they say they have good results. I have no experience with this shop though, so I'm trying to do my homework.
-dan
1969 A12 Roadrunner 1970 Plymouth Cuda 1968 Dodge Dart
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: BigDaddy440]
#869649
12/03/10 01:33 AM
12/03/10 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,992 midwest
68427vette
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,992
midwest
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go to the A12 site, the green A12, now on ebay,, had to have a full repaint, due to the soda , not being properly removed,
"very exprienced with car bodies and willing to guarantee against warpage"
Experience is the KEY!!! with parts that are 40-80 years old, anything can happen,,
i blasted a fender, and it had a 1/4 inch of MUD, and 60-80 plug/pull holes in it,, SURPRISE!! ,, truck cabs are the best(look good, till you dust he top, and see bondo, and surprise, its FULL, and dented in, where it was jumped on, caved in, then bondo over,10-25 years earlier.., i document all my jobs, and make the owner of the shop come out, if its a big deal, like BONDO roof, AND PHOTOGRAPH everything!!! one customer said, it was a no paint truck, low miles, you could clearly see re-paint on it,,
let me dig up some photos... i got some good ones,, i think i can buy NON silca sand, bulk. locally,, have you tried that,, are you using soda, with a dryer? or just shooting it through? i like to try soda..
I wont touch muscle car hoods, deck lids, i'll do the lips. I turn down the pressure. plus the shop bids that time out stripping them. i'm A OK with that!!
yea, the Ingersoll 250 compressor trailer is the way to go,( i think i paid 5-$6500 for it, 300 hours on meter, JD diseal) i have an 80 gal shop compressor, it could never keep up!! LOL,,
what are you charging ? by the hour? by the job? or piece, i do all. Yes 1000-1500 for a whole car, is reasonable. its a real sucky job!!! and not a good way to spend a saturday, in the summer.
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: 68427vette]
#869654
12/03/10 12:27 PM
12/03/10 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,624 Fort Worth, Texas
xs29j8
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,624
Fort Worth, Texas
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Quote:
this will be a long thread................
It has been the previous 10+ times it was discussed... have a look at one of them:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Test&Number=6207593
From that thread, my opinion on the various methods:
Quote:
Media blasting has lots of options, and even more opinions... Here are mine, based on two months research that I did three years ago. Altogether I visited six blasters, talked to about another half-dozen or so on the phone, and spent maybe 40 hours total on the Internet... mostly finding & reading technical articles that compared the advantages & dis-advantages of each type.
My conclusions of the most common types used on car bodies:
1) Sand - Highly effective and cheapest by far, but most dangerous to the car, and now the EPA is cracking down on it as a health hazard also... most really cheap quotes ($500-$600) are based on using this method. Using it extensively has a high risk of warping exterior sheetmetal, especially large relatively unsupported panels like roof skins, hood skins, etc. 2) Coal Slag - "Black Beauty" or similar abrasive, like sand, great on removing rust, but with the surface changes it can cause to the sheetmetal primer & paint adhesion can be reduced, causing problems done the road. Also, like sand, it will remove any and all factory coatings. 3) Soda - A very popular option with car restorers at this time. Not as effective on surface rust, but very effective on most other materials (paint, filler, etc). Some concerns about fully flushing out the residue after blasting, with 3-5 high pressure flushes being recommended. Still, some concerns that trapped residue where panel seams are could cause paint problems later... maybe the Moparts member that does soda blasting knows more how to insure there is not a problem. This is normally the moderate priced option, maybe $900-$1200 per body. 4) Plastic - The least effective on surface rust, but very safe to the sheetmetal. Fairly slow stripping, so the most expensive. I paid $2000 three years ago, it would probably cost $2200-$2500 now in most areas of the country. Where the surface rust was left intact, spot touch-ups with very light sand blasting was used. On frames and stiffened panels like floorboards, the sand blasting is relatively safe.
IMO, if a car body does not have extensive surface rust, plastic media is the way to go. My second choice would be soda blasting, but it would have to be followed by extensive flushing & inspection to ensure elimination of any residue.
Just my on the subject... use or ignore as you wish.
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: BigDaddy440]
#869655
12/03/10 08:48 PM
12/03/10 08:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
My car has very little rust, and no undercoating, so I don't think I NEED a super abrasive media, but I certainly don't want to have problems with my paint job from left over Soda residual that I didn't wash off well enough.
How does glass bead compare to plastic bead? There's a shop in town that uses glass bead on cars, and they say they have good results. I have no experience with this shop though, so I'm trying to do my homework.
-dan
There's glass beads which I believe is for fine work, Like I use it to blast iron parts, connecting rods, crankshafts, main caps in my blast cabinet. Never use glass beads on aluiminum.
Glass beads would be expensive for outside car blasting, I believe.
Then there's crushed glass which I would hope would be cheaper than glass beads, and used for more aggressive removal, I believe.
Then there are at least 5 kinds of plastic for blasting. Urea type plastic is the most economical for our cars, from my research. It's designed to be reused, it splinters upon impact making it still usable. Where as sand will get rounder and less effective the second time around.
Low pressures and hi volume is where it's at.
I use a heated pressure washer to remove all grease, undercoating, road tar from my work before blasting. Which allows me to do a light/fast blasting to get to bare metal. Whole other story, but the way to go.
If your rocker panels are packed full of sand someone did a heck of a lot of blasting and I'd be worried about metal fatigue.
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: chrisf]
#869656
12/04/10 12:25 AM
12/04/10 12:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,421 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,421
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:
paint falling off after soda is lazy prep work. no excuses nothing magic, just lazy prep, same way fisheyes and dirt get there. same way a bad mechanic blames his tools a bad bodyman/painter blames soda.
customer didnt want to pull the vent window parts so i blasted around them, the nice part about soda! i have no problem blasting any peice of sheetmetal with soda
Soda works great. The car needs to stripped to the bare shell. Any dufuss who gets a car blasted not being stripped is just a stupid lazy dummy. Soda blasting is no different than jumping in a lake with your clothes on/water gets every where.
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Re: Lets talk about Media Blasting Types (Soda vs Others)
[Re: NITROUSN]
#869657
12/17/10 03:56 PM
12/17/10 03:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,066 Newton, KS
70B5Cuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,066
Newton, KS
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I just had 70 Barracuda blasted with aluminum oxide. It cost me $200-granted, it was just a shell and most sheetmetal was not there. Just take a look at pics.
1970 Barracuda B5 6.1 Hemi/6 speed 1969 Charger survivor in R6 383/727-wrecked 12/24/18 1968 Charger in original burgundy paint "Ribeye" 1968 Charger w/ 6.1L, TR-6060, 9" 1968 Roadrunner w/ 6.1L/6 speed 2011 Dodge Ram w/ 6.7L
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