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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: Supercuda] #801672 09/15/10 07:26 PM 09/15/10 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,487 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,487 Kalispell Mt.	Sorry but I build a lot of tranny for a living and just don't see much differance in the price for cores or rebuild kits, and labor is about the same. I do have harder time finding hard parts and even rebuildable cores for the 200r4 and they need a lot more in general, usually more than just a rebuild, the dode trans usually do not have hard part failure. Also see a lot more cases break on the 200r4. A lot of the aftermarket companies just automatically mark up mopar stuff because they sell less of it than the GM junk. 450 hp with an a-500 is a piece of cake and not a lot over $600 from scratch. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: HotRodDave] #801673 09/15/10 09:08 PM 09/15/10 09:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY challengermike super stock
challengermike super stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY	Dont get me wrong i have no problem with the 2004rs,i have one in my 86 T Type that runs 11.7s.And i know im on borrowed time.Most GN guys end up ditching the 2004r for a 350 or 400 when you start making some power.I would be shocked to see a 2004r hold up to 1000 horse.Heck most gns are around half of that and they are blowing them up.If you really want a strong overdrive automatic put a 4L80 in it.They sell computers to run them in any car.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: challengermike] #801674 09/15/10 09:40 PM 09/15/10 09:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 99 South Dakota W wireweld OP member
wireweld OP member W Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 99 South Dakota	This tranny will be behind a 600 hp 560 tq, ez efi port injected, smallblock 416. Looking at the dimensions, it looks like you would have to redo the tranny hump support regardless of which tranny I use. Someday I hope to build a 1000 hp turbo smallblock, but for now this is what I will run. Here is the 200r4 quote 2400 tranny 575 Wilcap adapter 900 3500 stall converter 350 misc parts Here is the a500 2900 tranny I have a turbo action 10" converter that I would use. This is with a reverse manual vb. Does the a500 use the same vb as the 904? The 200r4 is from Art Carr in California and the a500 is from SMR Transmissions.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: wireweld] #801675 09/15/10 10:05 PM 09/15/10 10:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY challengermike super stock
challengermike super stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY	Are you talking about this trans? http://www.cpttransmission.com/2004R_trans.htm If so it might hold up to what your running right now,any more i would say no.That trans isnt very far from stock.Go to turbobuick or turbobuicks and ask over there,im pretty sure they will say the same as i did. And no the 904 vb is different. I just noticed that the input is changed and it does have more stuff done to it than i thought.It might hold up ok. Also if you do decied to go with a 2004r vince janis builds really nice ones i think cheaper than art carr.He is highly recommended on turbobuick. Last edited by challengermike; 09/15/10 10:10 PM.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: challengermike] #801676 09/15/10 10:13 PM 09/15/10 10:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 99 South Dakota W wireweld OP member
wireweld OP member W Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 99 South Dakota	yep thats the one. Do you agree that the tranny hump support would have to be altered using either tranny.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: Supercuda] #801677 09/15/10 10:35 PM 09/15/10 10:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX	Quote: Your diesel A518 version is substantially beefed over an A500 and you cannot bolt it to a V8. You cannot even put the diesel guts into an A500 to beef it up. You could use an ultrabell to put a diesel A518 behind a V8, but it costs money and fitment is a pita in an A body. Guess what? I tore my transmission down to change the seals in it It's the exact same inside as the 5.9 Magnum a518 I've got waiting to go in the hot rod. Same number of clutches and steels in every position. The only difference I could find is the governor weight. The diesel engine is limited to 2400 rpm. Yes, the 518 is based on the 727 while the 500 is based on the 904. They are very similar transmissions. Lots of drag cars use the 904 for the lighter weight components and reduced drag. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: wireweld] #801678 09/15/10 10:39 PM 09/15/10 10:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY challengermike super stock
challengermike super stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY	I have never tried to put either in an a body.At one time i was going to put a 700r4 in a b body but i never did it.But yes the 2004rs and the a500s have wider bodys where the t bar crossmemeber is so i would say you would have to.It might be closer to fitting with a 700 because they have the bolt on tail housing thats alot narrower.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: feets] #801679 09/15/10 10:43 PM 09/15/10 10:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY challengermike super stock
challengermike super stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY	Quote: Quote: Your diesel A518 version is substantially beefed over an A500 and you cannot bolt it to a V8. You cannot even put the diesel guts into an A500 to beef it up. You could use an ultrabell to put a diesel A518 behind a V8, but it costs money and fitment is a pita in an A body. Feets im not positive but i think the VB may also have some different springs in some valves thats for the deisel only,= early shifts. Last edited by challengermike; 09/15/10 10:44 PM.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: challengermike] #801680 09/16/10 08:02 AM 09/16/10 08:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: I have never tried to put either in an a body.At one time i was going to put a 700r4 in a b body but i never did it.But yes the 2004rs and the a500s have wider bodys where the t bar crossmemeber is so i would say you would have to.It might be closer to fitting with a 700 because they have the bolt on tail housing thats alot narrower. The 200r4 is actually shorter than a 904 and almost 10 inches shorter than an A500. The bulk of the trans is forward of the trans mount, which on the 200r4 is at the very end of the tailshaft. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: Supercuda] #801681 09/16/10 08:13 AM 09/16/10 08:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 99 South Dakota W wireweld OP member
wireweld OP member W Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 99 South Dakota	The mount on a a500 is at 24.5 and the mount on a 200r4 is at 27 inches plus the adapter moves it back another 5/8 inch. Which puts the hump support on top of the fat part of the tranny. I do not know for sure but that is what it looks like to me.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: wireweld] #801682 09/16/10 08:21 AM 09/16/10 08:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,487 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,487 Kalispell Mt.	Quote: The mount on a a500 is at 24.5 and the mount on a 200r4 is at 27 inches plus the adapter moves it back another 5/8 inch. Which puts the hump support on top of the fat part of the tranny. I do not know for sure but that is what it looks like to me. You are correct wireweld, still need body surgery On the other hand the a-500 you could grind off some extra bosses on the OD section of the trans, then allow the end of the trans to point down a hair like the kiesler kits then all you would have to do is change the crossmember. They seem to work OK doing that but I prefer not to. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: wireweld] #801683 09/16/10 09:22 AM 09/16/10 09:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	Quote: This tranny will be behind a 600 hp 560 tq, ez efi port injected, smallblock 416. Looking at the dimensions, it looks like you would have to redo the tranny hump support regardless of which tranny I use. Someday I hope to build a 1000 hp turbo smallblock, but for now this is what I will run. Here is the 200r4 quote 2400 tranny 575 Wilcap adapter 900 3500 stall converter 350 misc parts Here is the a500 2900 tranny I have a turbo action 10" converter that I would use. This is with a reverse manual vb. Does the a500 use the same vb as the 904? The 200r4 is from Art Carr in California and the a500 is from SMR Transmissions. can't use a non-lockup 904 converter on a lockup A500...input shaft splines are different. 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: wireweld] #801684 09/16/10 09:48 AM 09/16/10 09:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX	One of the guys in my club has a 360/a500 in his 75 Dart. the t-bar crossmember was cut and a heavier plate welded in. Other than shortening the driveshaft it dropped right in. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: wireweld] #801685 09/16/10 11:25 AM 09/16/10 11:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,061 New Mexico D dmerc super stock
dmerc super stock D Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,061 New Mexico	Quote: I am wondering since I am not using torsion bars anymore. Does the torsion bar support have to remain in the tunnel? Could I remove it altogether and just strengthen the crossmember more? Dealing with the torsion bar hump was one of the big issues on my 700R4. Since you arent going to have that it would really simplify things. Either way you go will be quite a bit of work but the first time the thing goes into overdrive you won't be able to wipe the smile off your face. It's that cool.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: dmerc] #801686 09/16/10 01:16 PM 09/16/10 01:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 99 South Dakota W wireweld OP member
wireweld OP member W Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 99 South Dakota	Correct me if I am wrong, but I was told that I could use my 10" converter if I didn't use the lockup, by putting in a different input shaft. Or did I misinterpret something.

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: wireweld] #801687 09/16/10 07:57 PM 09/16/10 07:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,487 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,487 Kalispell Mt.	You can use a non lock up converter with the a-500 if you swap everything in front of the front end of the input shaft with non-lockup parts from a 904. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart [Re: wireweld] #801688 09/16/10 08:03 PM 09/16/10 08:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,816 Alton, IL D Dakota_Don master
Dakota_Don master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,816 Alton, IL	more room and less weight with the 200r, but you will have to modify some things.. well then again you will have to make mods with the a500..

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