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Re: -
[Re: Old School]
#796347
09/10/10 12:33 PM
09/10/10 12:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,720
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,720
Portage,michigan
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Not trying to pile on here, but several years ago i posted an issue a real good friend of mine had with MM doing a " stage 2"port job on a set of eddie heads that resided on top of his 408 motor they built that was 12.5 to 1 compression that was a dog at the track( high 11's with pretty darn good combo).
I took the heads off for him and had them sent to a well known mopar builder on here. He looked them over and said basically nothing had been done to them..just shined the intake ports a tiny bit and removed no metal, to make it appear they had been massaged.He was far from happy with the valve job also.
This guy ported the heads to the level my buddy had expected MM to have done in the first place, and the car goes 11 flat on a 90 degree day up here in michigan..6 tenths difference!!!! from 113 mph to 120.This was first time out with it.
They finally did make some sort of restitution, i honestly dont remember what it was now,this was about 4/5 years ago...but the point is, he was charged for work that out and out wasnt done in the first place. So, i am not really surprised to read this post and others...its frankly a continuing saga with MM.
Its a real good reason why i have taken any motors i have had built over the years out of my immediate neighborhood( i am very near MM) and had the work done elsewhere, where i had nary a lick of trouble, either at Hensley or Best Machine.
Both of whom i would recommend to anybody.
Edit..in fairness i should mention my buddy was running a 750 on his combo that i had him replace with a 950 from summit( just a box stock proform unit i sat the float bowls and idle on for him prior to that outing, nothing more) i suspect that accounted for maybe 10-15% of his ET increase, but not a solid 6 tenths and 7 MPH. The combo was otherwise identical to what he ran previously. just the head work, new valve job and carb change.
Last edited by B3422W5; 09/10/10 12:42 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: -
[Re: Labratt]
#796355
09/11/10 01:53 AM
09/11/10 01:53 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Quote:
Dave..THANKS for be-littling my el-cheapo little 440!!!  I understand where you're coming from on the differences of parts..and cost of parts! But..if a motor is put together PROFESSIONALLY...do a PROFESSIONAL job!!! That's all I'm sayin'! DIDN'T CHECK CLEARANCES???...LUDICROUS!!    
OK lets look at this in a different way.
MM builds a $20,000 engine, customer picks up says thankyou gives him a check and leaves.
A few days later the bank tells MM the checks clearances are TOO tight and won't cash 
So he calls 30 times in 2 weeks and gets NO answer.
The customer accidently answers the phone and it's MM, he tells them he had no idea the check didn't clear  , but don't worry he will make it right.
So would the customer be treated with KID GLOVES ON HERE or BY THE POLICE??  Don
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Re: -
[Re: kilroy]
#796358
09/11/10 04:42 PM
09/11/10 04:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,374
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,374
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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The "everybody makes mistakes" comment does not hold water with this situation. An engine of that caliber, being built by a shop like MM, that goes out the door without the bearing clearances being checked is absolutely inexcuseable. That's engine building 101. If I got my motor back like the OP described, MM wouldn't even get an opportunity to fix it. If they didn't do it right the first time and made such elementary mistakes, not to mention screwed me on my old parts, they'd never get another dime of my money. I'd be expecting money and my old parts back. 
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: -
[Re: fullmetaljacket]
#796359
09/11/10 04:49 PM
09/11/10 04:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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Quote:
Everyone makes mistakes on both sides, we're all human, but to not get a call back as soon as the RED light goes on in the delivery room is uncalled for, literally.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
You're a business and you crank out $20,000 work.
NONE should bad. NONE!
Statistically impossible but if you want to play in the big boys arena, that ONE bad engine IS going to end up on the internet. Rightfully or NOT rightly so.
You let out one bad $20k engine and you're gonna pay.
Sorry. No sympathy for the shop. That engine went out the door. Too late. If it's 1 out of a 1000, then the bad pr will survive, but the internet brings out everybody that had a bad time...
Just saying, MM IS going to lose more than they save by insisting the amount they paid was more than fair. Eat the $$, MM. It's gonna cost ya.
Or is the hit going to put you over the edge because your finances are super shaky?
FWIW, I build my own. I screw up? Nobody's going to come bail my sorry-azz butt out finacially. The stakes are higher so the QC you put in are worth it.
Forty years. Never met a shop that owed up to replacing 100% a $20k shop to an individual. Foose? They'd be overnighting him TWO replacement engine.
IT's all about publicty.
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Re: -
[Re: dOoC]
#796362
09/11/10 06:40 PM
09/11/10 06:40 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
On a hi-$$ race-engine like this ? ... with low-drag rings ?? .....
30-40 .... 
Perhaps if the valvetrain wasn't installed. But put the valvetrain on and the breakaway will be significantly greater than that as the valvesprings compress then lesser as the valvesprings relax. Especially if the springs are heavy psi rated.
How was the rotational torque tested? Valvetrain or not?
MB
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Re: -
[Re: dOoC]
#796363
09/11/10 06:49 PM
09/11/10 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
On a hi-$$ race-engine like this ? ... with low-drag rings ?? .....
30-40 ....
On my small block I got 18 pounds break away without
the springs... sure a BB will have a higher number
but a GUESS would be 25 - 30 due to area of the rings
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Re: -
[Re: dOoC]
#796364
09/11/10 06:54 PM
09/11/10 06:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Mistakes happen,the best resolution is a fast resolution,to drag the issue out only gives both sides a chance to get bitterly piss at each other and as it drags on and others get involved the situation only gets worse.If one of our racers or customers have a problem then we have a problem.We get involved and work through the problem together and usually can determine if we were at fault or they created the problem,either way we resolve the issue together and usually come to a amicable settlement to retain a positive relationship and move on.While I was recuperating in the hospital the guys at BGR stepped up keep the shop operating and help keep our commitments to our racers and customers.At that time we were having issues with bad lifters and hurt cams.As soon as I was able,Donny,Lou,Chaz,Curt Jr and I delt with everyones issues,correcting each on a personal level.We were able to get some warranty help and took all the problem engines down to bare blocks and started over correcting every issue including new rings,bearings,oil pumps,gasket and what ever else needed.There were a few engines that never left the shop and we didn't want to chance more problems and remove the cam and lifter and installed replacements.Every lifter that we replaced was disassembled and cleaned and checked before use.I was a tough time for all of us at BGR and costly.I can honestly say that everyone that had issues understood and I never handed a single one a bill for anything.The amasing thing was each person that had a problem came directly to me an insisted the that we accept some payment for our efforts and I know that some slipped the guys some cash on the way through the show.We humbled ourselves and servived the ordeal and have retained each and everyone as customers today.As always respect those who keep you in business and you will always have them knocking on your door.BGR's philosophy,"our customers become our friends,our friends become our family"  The best thing to do from here is for each party to step back,reflect,regain each respect and confidence and come to an amicable resolution or settleup and move on.Life is too short.
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Re: -
[Re: B G Racing]
#796365
09/11/10 07:50 PM
09/11/10 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Mistakes happen,the best resolution is a fast resolution,to drag the issue out only gives both sides a chance to get bitterly piss at each other and as it drags on and others get involved the situation only gets worse.If one of our racers or customers have a problem then we have a problem.We get involved and work through the problem together and usually can determine if we were at fault or they created the problem,either way we resolve the issue together and usually come to a amicable settlement to retain a positive relationship and move on.While I was recuperating in the hospital the guys at BGR stepped up keep the shop operating and help keep our commitments to our racers and customers.At that time we were having issues with bad lifters and hurt cams.As soon as I was able,Donny,Lou,Chaz,Curt Jr and I delt with everyones issues,correcting each on a personal level.We were able to get some warranty help and took all the problem engines down to bare blocks and started over correcting every issue including new rings,bearings,oil pumps,gasket and what ever else needed.There were a few engines that never left the shop and we didn't want to chance more problems and remove the cam and lifter and installed replacements.Every lifter that we replaced was disassembled and cleaned and checked before use.I was a tough time for all of us at BGR and costly.I can honestly say that everyone that had issues understood and I never handed a single one a bill for anything.The amasing thing was each person that had a problem came directly to me an insisted the that we accept some payment for our efforts and I know that some slipped the guys some cash on the way through the show.We humbled ourselves and servived the ordeal and have retained each and everyone as customers today.As always respect those who keep you in business and you will always have them knocking on your door.BGR's philosophy,"our customers become our friends,our friends become our family"
The best thing to do from here is for each party to step back,reflect,regain each respect and confidence and come to an amicable resolution or settleup and move on.Life is too short.
Bob can you pass this letter along to indy?
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