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Re: OE Gold Valiant Pictures From The Mopar Nationals. *DELETED*
[Re: ECS]
#782880
10/17/10 09:18 AM
10/17/10 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958
Oakdale CT
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Quote:
Thank you very much for your input Gary. For whatever reason, the magazine covering the car decided to solicit "opinions" about OUR restoration from individuals that couldn't find their butt with both hands!
I can't speak for other engines (I see people posting pictures of small and big blocks) but on the slant six I'm 100% positive because I had to do so many of the damn things adjusting valves.
Rubber gasket with painted tabs (one way to tell the darn thing had never had an adjustment) always cracked me up that Chrysler waited till the 80's to make the engine with a hydralic cam!
I had to rebuild one (225 with hydralic cam) in a truck that lost oil pressure and killed the crank & rods. Chrysler refused to replace the shortblock because the block was still good! madness.
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Re: 1970 Hemi
[Re: anlauto]
#782882
10/17/10 02:24 PM
10/17/10 02:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
You've been talking about them for a week or so now, but no mention of any names....Can you list the names of people who are questioning or work?
First I want to thank the guys like Chris G, Dave Wise, Bob Conca, Gary Donovan and the others who have come forward to state the facts/truth. At this point Alan, I am not going to name the individuals who are nothing more than gutless pretenders. All in due time!! They do their COWARDS work behind the scenes. They don't care about conveying the truth! All they care about is preserving and maintaining the APPEARANCE of how great their knowledge is viewed by the industry. As long as their articles hold public superiority they are content. When someone else comes along to threaten their perceived superiority they start calling the editors to lie about aspects that are actually correct, in order to maintain their self serving greatness. It doesn't matter that THEIR articles and features are nothing but a bunch of garbage with respect to "correctness"! It isn't about reality....for them it is what everyone THINKS is correct! If they can gossip and get the editors to print that something is "not correct" or might be "in question", they are as happy as a clam. Keep in mind that these ego maniacs are usually the only source of validation/information for THEIR magazine coverage. They get to be the judge and jury for themselves as well as everybody else that makes it to the party. Most of these guys couldn't handle OUR LEFTOVER TRASH as it pertains to accurate restorations and correct factory procedures! Half of them don't even do their own work. I don't know about the rest of you guys but it has NEVER even crossed my mind to put my nose in their business, much less their magazine coverage. What a pitiful bunch of insecure pretenders!
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Re: 1970 Hemi
[Re: anlauto]
#782883
10/19/10 10:51 PM
10/19/10 10:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
I haven't read any magazine articles on this Valiant yet...
I was forwarded the article that will appear in Mopar Action and it was very accurate and entertaining. Cliff Gromer did a very professional documentary of the process that went into the restoration along with the efforts of those who made it possible. I am pleased to say that NONE of the "garbage" made its way in the feature. I wanted to say thanks to Cliff and the staff at Mopar Action for a job well done! After all the drama I hope everyone gets a copy to read and see the final results. 
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Re: OE Gold Valiant Pictures From The Mopar Nationals.
[Re: anlauto]
#782885
10/25/10 08:12 PM
10/25/10 08:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
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I think the final score is being kept private and confidential. I think the only point lost was for the power steering fluid being the wrong colour, but I'm sure Dave will give them plenty of proof that they (judges) are wrong therefore awarding Dave a perfect score. At least that's the only deductions I've heard about 
CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
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Re: OE Gold Valiant Pictures From The Mopar Nationals.
[Re: anlauto]
#782888
10/25/10 11:24 PM
10/25/10 11:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
I think the final score is being kept private and confidential.
Not at all Big Al!! I literally just sent Keith an email about this subject before seeing that this thread had been raised from the dead! (Perfect timing for Halloween....huh?!?!)  Just this past Saturday I received the OE GOLD Certificate. The points are changed every year to keep things form being "figured out", so this years OE allocation was 2250 total points. We received 2240.75 points which means that we were deducted a total of 9.25 points. The "fluid" was a 1.5 deduction and my clear VIN overlay (over the original VIN decal) was given a half point deduction. See the caption below written by Mopar Action concerning this subject matter! The Challenger had a scoring percentage of 99.23% where this car received a 99.59%. I didn't get the itemized deductions with the Certificate so I have no idea where the remaining -7.25 points came from. There were some comments about our tires not having consistent dates but I don't think that they would have held that many "negative" points. Besides, two of the tires WERE correctly dated for the car which left three to take the brunt of whatever points were subtracted!
COMMENTARY FROM MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE
"The Valiant did not hit a perfect score, having points deducted for having brown power steering fluid instead of red auto trans fluid in the reservoir, and a new - though exact - clear overlay on the original VIN label, as the original overlay had turned yellow and could not be made to look new. Here again, we question the judges. The factory manual states specifically that power steering fluid and NOT auto trans fluid be used in the system to avoid damage. Also, if the overlay (but not the VIN sticker itself ) was knocked, wouldn’t it follow that rechromed bumpers or even a repaint, or new upholstery be knocked? Doesn’t seem consistent."
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Re: OE Gold Valiant Pictures From The Mopar Nationals.
[Re: ECS]
#782889
10/26/10 12:08 PM
10/26/10 12:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,450
o
ChryCoGuy
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,450
o
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Cool thread! Little more drama than I would prefer, but I guess it's all part of what the hobby has become (or perhaps more accurately - a regular day at moparts ). All that aside, seeing this Valiant in "as new" condition answers a lot of questions that I had from back when I was buying and driving these cars as beaters. There were always a number of common items that seemed to rust out on these cars and looking at the reference photos in this thread I see that they generally are the parts that were unpainted or poorly painted from the factory. For example, the brake lines with the undercoating only on the bottom side would have been great for trapping water and road salt in them to make sure that that brake line failed in 6 or 7 years in my area of the world! Seeing your car is the equivalent of stepping in a time machine to document one of these as it rolled off the assembly line. I for one have never seen one in this condition, so I really appreciate the chance to see one now. Thanks so much to all involved for actually bothering with a slant 6 A-body - it's about time these cars received some attention. I mean, despite the fact that we all drooled over 6 pack Roadrunners and Hemi Challengers back in the day, these little bombs were the ones we (or our parents) were actually driving at the time. Also, thanks for taking the time to share this with the Moparts crowd despite all the negativity that seems to surround the subject! 
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Re: OE Gold Valiant Pictures From The Mopar Nationals.
[Re: ECS]
#782890
10/26/10 12:15 PM
10/26/10 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 179
Up in the North and Far Away
AutoEngineer
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 179
Up in the North and Far Away
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Dave, cheers  You and your team have done excellent work, there is no doubt about this. It has been a big favour for the whole Mopar community to restore a plain jane Valiant, a car that is very often overlooked. Not all Mopar enthusiasts have a possibility to have a R,V or U-code car as a basis for a resto job. In this hobby of old cars we should not look down on these 4 door sedan cars that kept most people on the wheels decades ago. Hundereds of thousands were manufactured, but how many are left now, and how many after 10 or 20 years? May be a few. Many enthusiasts are already having in their garages rare or even more rare "sporty" muscle cars, but how many have a 4D Valiant, Dart, Coronet, Satellite etc... Dare to have one beside the muscle cars you already have. That's something different, COOL and a sign of a real automotive enthusiast. I have for instance two '70 E bodies, a ragtop and a hardtop, both original big block cars, but now I am planning to have a early 70's or late 60's 4D Mopar, black, and the bigger the better. Don't take too seriously the comments of those "experts" criticizing the level of your resto or some details. It's however a "Olympic Gold Medal" level resto. At least 99% of the Moparts members can agree it. No matter what's the issue or decision in the life, you can't satisfy 100% of the people. Also in this hobby is the small group of people you can never satisfy. Looking forward to see other great restorations from you. You have a given a lot to this hobby, keep up the great work.
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Re: OE Gold Valiant Pictures From The Mopar Nationals.
[Re: AutoEngineer]
#782891
10/26/10 06:24 PM
10/26/10 06:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
Looking forward to see other great restorations from you. You have a given a lot to this hobby, keep up the great work.
Thank you VERY much! With all of the drama that is starting to take place (regarding the judging) I do not think I will be "welcome" or actually want to be involved with another OE project.
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Re: OE Gold Valiant Pictures From The Mopar Nationals.
[Re: anlauto]
#782894
10/26/10 08:45 PM
10/26/10 08:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
Do the "other guys" have this much "drama" or were they more welcoming to your restorations.
I am dumbfounded on this one Alan! Every car I have ever had judged (brand X) was explained in detail as to what was deducted. On BOTH of my other Chrysler OE cars, I received a vehicle summary along with the OE certificate. NOT WITH THIS ONE! I was told that the summary sheet and Certificate was processed by the judges and then sent to Jim Belinda for HIM to forward to the participants. Why would the certificate be sent but not the summary sheet if BOTH were sent to Jim by the Judges? If both were completed, wouldn't it make sense to send everything at once rather than double the cost and effort of shipping the two documents separately? It just seems a little weird and different from the last two times!
The deductions seemed to change from what we were told at the show. I have a strong feeling that a couple of extra deductions might have been added AFTER the fact. Why all the secrecy?! I guess time will certainly tell. In essence, we really didn't take the car to be judged! We knew what we were bringing and thought it would serve as a learning experience for those who "judged" and saw the car. We did this to show the entire hobby that ANYONE could compete or be involved with the highest program in the Mopar venue. So many times I hear people talk about how they "only" have a certain type of lowly vehicle and could "Never" compete or be viewed as one of the elites. HOGWASH!!! Everyone involved in this Hobby is just as important as the next person. It doesn't matter what kind of car you have or the engine between the fenders. This Valiant is BETTER, NEATER, COOLER AND BADDER than ANY car I own.....period! It is my personal favorite amongst a pretty neat group of my Muscle Cars. This is the type of Car that made the Chrysler Corporation what it is! Not the HEMIS....not the SIX PACKS! Many of us grew up in the back seats of cars just like this. Going to Church, School, Grocery Shopping, Vacations, Trips to Grandmas, Holiday Journeys, etc...! I actually think that this restoration may have exposed some of the "cracks" in the Judging program. The wrong Color Power Steering Fluid??? Where did THAT come from? I also thought the Judges were to ask permission before removing parts off of your car! No one on the Valiant team remembers anyone being asked if they could remove our P/S reservoir cap! We were also told that NO CAR would ever get a perfect score and that they would ALWAYS find something to deduct in order to keep a perfect score from occurring. I guess if a car could be transported from 1970 they would fabricate something in order to accomplish that particular objective. Keep in mind that none of this is about "sour grapes". We just broke every OE record and took Best of Show at the event! It is simply about measurable continuity within a Judging program. It should be transparent and structured for everyone involved.....including us peons with 4 door vehicles!
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Re: OE Gold Valiant Pictures From The Mopar Nationals.
[Re: Morty426]
#782896
10/26/10 10:07 PM
10/26/10 10:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
Dave - You really should do a station wagon.
When you have to resort to extremes just to have people do the right thing, it starts to take away from the enjoyment of it all. From people calling editors to "boast" of things that we did wrong (who never even saw the car, before OR after the restoration) to moving targets within the judging programs, I think I have had about all the fun I can handle for now. Tom Barcroft has an original Sno-Runner he received from Chrysler for a sales promotion in the early 1980's. It is still in the crate and in the original packaging. I wonder if we could talk Tom into bringing it to the Nationals (for judging) to see what Chrysler did wrong during the assembling of that particular original vehicle? 
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