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There are so many little weird things about this A Body that you don't usually find on an E or B Body...amazing

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Hi Alan! This was a controversial subject a few weeks back so I thought I would post these pictures of the alternator before it was restored. The Nationals hadn't even concluded and one of the "experts" was gossiping to others how I didn't apply the "yellow" inspection marks properly on the unit. Just because he had never seen a painted inspection mark "sprayed" on a housing, he assumed it was incorrect. Anyone looking at the original example would realize that the yellow over-spray on the INSIDE of the housing had blown through the openings from the FRONT! (If you look closely, there is actually quite a bit more than the line is pointing to.) Also notice the small yellow inspection mark on the bottom mounting hole. It was also "sprayed" on the unit. You can see the over-spray as is dissipates and the lack of "puddling" (had it been brushed or dabbed) in the 90 degree angles of the aluminum. One thing I have learned from doing these cars is that there will always be exceptions and oddities as it pertains to vehicles that were built by humans.

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Dave,
Could you please let me know what gaskets are available that were developed during this restoration....

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Hey Mike! Here are a sample of some of the gaskets we are manufacturing. They are the same "automobile" grade as the originals. We had to have the material custom manufactured because it was discontinued a few years ago. In the close up of the gas pedal gasket, the original is in the center and my reproduction is on the left. The incorrect spongy/foam gaskets are to the right. I also included a larger photo showing some of what we now offer. Take special note of the black gasket used to seal the heater box to the cowl opening. We use the exact material (in strip form) that was used by the factory. These were never manufactured (by the original supplier) in a solid circle, round sponge foam!

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Your side-by-side comparison looks to be using the old crap solid foam gaskets from years ago Nobody uses those anymore....
Oh yea...I thought there was NO REPRODUCTION parts is this Valiant restoration

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My "side by side comparison" was purchased by Dave Stuart (5 months ago) to see what was being offered. Our gaskets were made from the original materials, by the original manufacturer that supplied them to the Automotive World in the Sixties and Seventies.

Why the rhetoric questions Alan? You were neck deep in the ordeal that ensued just a week after the Nationals. Our original intent was to restore the Valiant without using a single reproduction part. Ten days before the show, Dave Stuart noticed that one of the exterior handles had hairline scratches. I had been buying/collecting NOS handles trying to get a pristine, matching set. (Reference the Picture Below) With just a few days left before the show, we decided to use a pristine reproduction instead of the damaged one. It stood out like a sore thumb (from the nos pieces) so the ENTIRE group/team made an eleventh hour decision to use the repos BUT with the original push buttons and gaskets. Four days before the show we noticed that an interior handle had some chrome that flaked off. We diligently tried to find another NOS replacement to complete the set. (Tony Dagostino can attest to this as he tried to find us another up to the day before the show.) One of our "friends" who was also involved with this project said that he would overnight a reproduction set that had all the correct markings. We went through the same scenario when they arrived. We couldn't replace just one because they looked better than the NOS versions. As a group, we decided to use the entire set. These decisions were made at the eleventh hour! We are not the "lying-hypocritical" group that some have decided to refer to us as. Besides using only NOS/Original parts, our goal was ALSO trying to beat the score that we achieved with the Challenger 2 years earlier. Sometimes circumstances change the course you have to take!

For the record Alan there was also one plastic strap that was a reproduction, as well as the clear overlay that covered the original VIN decal. (The VIN Decal IS still Original.) An original plastic cable strap broke two weeks before the show and the NOS replacement that Steve Juliano sent us ALSO broke when we tried to install it. The clear overlay looked good until we detailed the surrounding areas of the driver door so we decided to go with a "better look" over "ugly originality". It is odd that you never mentioned or were concerned with the "reproduction" paint that we used throughout the entire car!

Door handles, a plastic tie and a VIN clear overlay!.......When I find one more NOS handle, they will all be original and back in place. We are allowed to change them AFTER the show aren't we Alan? Who decided on the deadline for our Team achieving the original goals? I don't think the mission statement has to be abandoned just because we ran into some difficulty prior to the show......do you?! By the time you see the Magazine coverage, everything except the clear overlay will be "original" once again. In the overall scheme of things, I am still pretty proud of our Team and the final outcome. Sorry if we disappointed you Alan! Would you like to buy some leftover NOS door handles?!?

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For the record Dave....I missed that whole fiasco about the door handles in the last thread.

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Who mentioned anything about door handles in a previous or "last thread"? If you "missed" that part, how would you have even known about them being mentioned at the "ending" of the thread? Come on Alan.....who is doing the "fishing" now?

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Dave are you worried about the judges seeing this thread now that you let the cat out of the bag regarding the small amount of repro parts on the car??

MIke

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The same judges who incorrectly dinged him for the "wrong" power steering fluid? I'd hope that they'd leave well enough alone.

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Dave are you worried about the judges seeing this thread now that you let the cat out of the bag regarding the small amount of repro parts on the car??

MIke

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To be direct and completely upfront about all of this Mike.....I don't care!!

"Not a Charger" (Mike) mentioned the power steering fluid ordeal. After bringing that incorrect infraction to the attention of the Head Judge, I never received an answer how it would be handled. As far as I know it is still considered an infraction. One good thing is that I did find out my deductions right after the show. At the event we (Dave Stuart, Steve Been and myself) had a conversation with Keith as to what the biggest deduction was for the car. He said it was "the incorrect color of the power steering fluid and we got dinged 1.5 points." Dan (another judge) asked about the clear overlay on the original VIN and I told him how I decided to recover it due to it looking a bit tattered and yellow. We did not conceal anything! Had we been asked about ANY of the reproduction pieces, we would have been totally upfront regarding their status. One thing is for sure....if these door handles and plastic strap show up on the Judging sheets when I receive them, it will only prove that the car was still being judged, almost five weeks AFTER the show was over.

I called Keith on Tuesday August 17TH to find the total deductions that were given to the car. He thought I was fishing for answers but I was actually getting a verbal commitment before disclosing the findings about the power steering fluid. At that point, I had researched the power steering fluid and KNEW that they had made a mistake. I wanted to know specifically what they found so there wasn't a "new" or "swapped" deduction to take the place of the power steering debacle that was soon to be disclosed. During our conversation I was told we missed 1.5 points for Power Steering Fluid, a half point deduction for the VIN clear overlay and a deduction for the wrong date sequence of the tires. He said there might have been a few other "fraction of a point" deductions but he didn't have the judging sheets with him at that time. I was also told that the Valiant scored the "best" between the Cuda and the Challenger regarding the originality and condition of the NOS tires. I checked my scoring sheet for the Challenger and it said that there was a "minute deduction because of age" for that particular tire set. If we did better with the Valiant then our "deduction" for the tires should less than a "minute" infraction. I would certainly hope that the judging of the Valiant was completed on August 14TH and a "shell game" does not ensue due to all of these following controversies!

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If the judges can not tell the differance between repro and nos handles and they miss it I'd say tough luck. To me it would be like me trying to judge that type of cars and not knowing the differance. If they are still judging it now it says a couple of things.

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Hi Corey! How have you been doing? Great I hope.

With all due respect, NO ONE could have distinguished the difference in what Mike Ross sent me (to use) while we were in a pinch. The two of us have had our differences but I can honestly say that what he offers is every bit as authentic AND correct as what was offered from the Factory! We would not have even remotely considered using them if they were not exactly like the originals. (We did however use the original push buttons and gaskets to try and keep with our original mission statement.) Even though the show is over, it is still important that I put the original pieces back in place. I did receive (just yesterday) the final outside door handle that I had been waiting for. The original interior handles are being re-chromed so at least they will be put back where they came from.

Regarding the Judges, other than what I have admitted here, they really don't (absolutely) know either way! In the next couple of weeks ALL of the handles will be "original" and back in place. I guess they will just have to go back and change the scoring AGAIN if that is what resulted from my post yesterday. I still maintain that a licensed, subsidized independent manufacturer, commissioned by Chrysler is just as legitimate for parts as the "beat-up" NOS versions from years ago. Think about it! The companies that made parts for Chrysler (back in the day) were nothing more than licensed, subsidized independent manufacturers, commissioned by.......! Sometimes the past IS a forecast of the future.

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...except for now...they're made in China

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Does it really make a difference in the correctness of the parts? I would bet that some of the parts made in the Sixties were from different Countries. The only difference is whether or not you were aware of it. I personally would rather have a perfectly made part from China than an incorrectly made part from the USA. Sorry......I guess even my Patriotism has its boundries!

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If the judges can not tell the differance between repro and nos handles and they miss it I'd say tough luck. To me it would be like me trying to judge that type of cars and not knowing the differance. If they are still judging it now it says a couple of things.

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Hi Corey! How have you been doing? Great I hope.

With all due respect, NO ONE could have distinguished the difference in what Mike Ross sent me (to use) while we were in a pinch. The two of us have had our differences but I can honestly say that what he offers is every bit as authentic AND correct as what was offered from the Factory! We would not have even remotely considered using them if they were not exactly like the originals. (We did however use the original push buttons and gaskets to try and keep with our original mission statement.) Even though the show is over, it is still important that I put the original pieces back in place. I did receive (just yesterday) the final outside door handle that I had been waiting for. The original interior handles are being re-chromed so at least they will be put back where they came from.

Regarding the Judges, other than what I have admitted here, they really don't (absolutely) know either way! In the next couple of weeks ALL of the handles will be "original" and back in place. I guess they will just have to go back and change the scoring AGAIN if that is what resulted from my post yesterday. I still maintain that a licensed, subsidized independent manufacturer, commissioned by Chrysler is just as legitimate for parts as the "beat-up" NOS versions from years ago. Think about it! The companies that made parts for Chrysler (back in the day) were nothing more than licensed, subsidized independent manufacturers, commissioned by.......! Sometimes the past IS a forecast of the future.

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Didn't James Fillmore at Detroit Muscle Technologies already come up with premium gaskets using the correct materials?

......but have you not seen what DMT has to offer? They're currently the BEST available.....

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I'm not sure how the industry has been convinced as to what is the "best" but I took your advice Alan and purchased what is currently available. The pictures below pretty much tell the story. The original is the dirty sample and my reproduction is the thicker of the two clean examples. From what I see their material is nothing like the original(s) or what we currently offer. It is comparable to Styrofoam that you can find at the Art Store! Certainly not the automotive grade that was originally used. Notice the open cell composite design between the three samples. The correct material has a "Snake-skin" appearance to it. Also notice that what you refer to as the "best" is 1/16" thinner than the original sample. One thing I never do is offer products or "reinvent the wheel" just for the sake of being redundant. Help me out with this one......what am I missing here Alan?!